Making Holes For Saddle Stitching Your Leather

[Sanch]

ok so I know this probably has been discussed before but I gotta know how many of you hand stitchers make your ALL of your holes before you actually stitch the "product" I would also like to know what kind of professional insight you can share about doing this? do you use an awl to make your holes? why? do you make your stitching holes as you go? do you use a drill press and a very small drill bit? if so why? what scenarios do you use these techniques? ok so here are the questions now for my answers, I have been hand sewing (saddle stitching) since I first started leatherworking and I have done nothing but make my holes as I stitch I use a diamond shaped awl to do so, also I have stitched leather form 2oz all the way up to 6 layers of 12oz (ouch! just to see if I could!) in this manner. I of course have read stitching guides of all types and watched videos etc, etc. I know! I know! if its not broke don't fix it that's not what this is about for me its about sharing professional insight (knowledge)! so again who what when where why, if you would like to include your specific tool types, suggestions and preferences please do so. also include your thread preference! for me I have had good and bad experience with waxed twisted poly cord, from Tandy, and most recently ZW leather. also I know this may be redundant but I feel that when you stop learning and sharing you have limited our art. Ladies and Gentlemen respectfully thank you for your time and participation.

Edited August 23, 2014 by stealfdawg

[DavidL]

I use my pricking iron to go all the way through leather no thicker than 4 ounces, 6 you may be able to get away with. The holes on top will be enlarged but I take my fingers and rub the marks until they go away and stitch without an awl. I've had good consistent results and I stayed with this technique. Many will say its not the right way but even professionals in italy and france I hear do it the same ways. They also do prick the iron half way and do each one at a time depending on the artisan.

[ANeat]

No expert here by any stretch but I think the key for me is to use whatever technique works best on the job at hand. Something thin? probably a good whack with a pricking iron and youre ready to stich, More typical projects, stitch mark (pricking iron) then I normally use a diamond awl as I stitch.

Ive done a few knife sheaths with 5 layer welts and used a diamond awl in a drill press(not running) to punch thru.

Lots of different ways, I think everyone ends up doing what gets the results that they are satisfied with.

I tried drilling on a couple projects and didnt like what I was seeing in the end result, not for me.

Thread; I really like tiger thread, Have a good bit of the thread from Maine Thread but to me it just doeset feel as nice as the tiger thread; at the moment Im using both

Edited August 23, 2014 by ANeat

[Sanch]

I agree on using which ever technique works best for an individual but that once again is subjective to the "product" im just looking for opinions and different views Thank you for sharing yours it is valuable and a professional insight that is shared with everyone is even more so! Tiger thread may be in my future but I cant justify spending so much on a spool and am still looking for a place that doesn't have a $50.00 minimum order! thanks again!

[ANeat]

I hear you on the Tiger thread; I got some smaller amounts on Ebay to try out. Most sell 20 or 25 meters for less than $10 Good way to try a color or size before committing to 500 meter or 1000 meter spools.

Wanting to try some of the Lin Câblé waxed linen myself but havent yet

[JohnD]

I do both depending on what I'm making. On bigger things like motorcycle seats and such, I punch holes first. On smaller items, like wallets and stuff that will fit in my stitching clamp, I punch as I go. I do always use an awl to make my holes, I never punch holes with my pricking iron, just mark the holes with it, if only for the longevity of the tool.

[MonicaJacobson]

Here's a place you can get smaller amounts of tiger thread:

https://www.etsy.com/listing/173847749/08mm-tiger-thread?ref=shop_home_active_1

That said, I get mine from Ludlow Leather, and it's no more expensive than the cheap tandy stuff. It's ten dollars more, but there's more of it. And it's amazing to use!

I use a pricking iron and go all the way around in advance. I have sewed two pieces of 9 oz together in this fashion. Lots of counting holes, though.

When I first started, I used a round awl or a drill bit to make holes, in an attempt to not have to buy so many tools, but they would tear a little bit as you sewed. The diamond shape works really well.

[Sanch]

Monica and JohnD thanks for your responses, and insight JohnD I would like to see some of your seats sir! monica thanks for the link I will be hitting Len up for some Tiger and needles soon!

[TexasJack]

The concept with a diamond awl is to open up a narrow slot that the thread can go through, and then have the leather "set" or close back up that slot so that it holds the stitch tightly. If you make a hole with a pricking iron or drill bit or whatever, that hole will never close up as tight as the one made by an awl.

If you try to make all of your holes with an awl, it's hard to keep from some of them tightening up and making it hard to sew.

So, in my mind, there are two kinds of projects: those that work best with all of the holes made first (as previous posts describe) and those that can be done a few holes at a time. People that do a variety of projects may very well use both techniques.

Then there are those who just don't like using an awl and are going to use one of the other methods, in which case it doesn't matter how many holes you do at a time.

I hope that's not completely confusing.

[Sanch]

TexasJack, thank you for your response! As you can see by my vote I have always made my holes with a diamond awl as I stitch. I have however used a drill press and 1/16" bit one time in attempt to get better results from White thread to no avail, bleeding of dye still occurred. Dye was set for 24 hours and sealed then set for 24 more.

[camano ridge]

I pre punch my holes with a diamond awl chucked in an unplugged drill press. I do not like drilling holes with a drill bit, essentialy you are burnishing the holes as you drill and it does not heal up. As to rub off on your thread I usually use a little bit longer piece of thread and figiure the first 10 -12" on each end will be waste as that is where most of the dye will bepicked up the rest of the thread should be clean. As you stitch and near the end of your thread and the thread that is left is looking dingy or discolored from the dye rub off cut it off and finish stitching with a new piece of thread repeat as needed.

[Camerius]

I do both, depending on the project that I'm working with. If it's one of my slip cases, then I pre-punch all the holes first with a chisel. If it's a wallet or such, then I use a pricking iron and awl. In both cases I want the stitching to look good while being aesthetically pleasing to the eye. Pre-punching can be good as it can be a time saver on some projects, while going the the pricking iron and awl means that you want to take more care or be more mindful of what you're doing as it takes more skill that way.

[Tannin]

I mark & start the holes using a Pricking Iron. Then I use a saddler's awl to open up the holes, one stitch at a time, when sewing (saddle stitch). That's how Nigel Armitage does it on his excellent youtube videos. Why one hole at a time? Well, the holes start to close up quite quickly, especially if you open up another hole nearby.

[NVLeatherWorx]

I also use both methods, but I used to only use the stitching awl as that is all we had at the time I started. My choice for any given moment is based on two factors: 1) The size of the project, and, 2) Is speed (time) a factor for the project. Regarding the comment about a diamond punch leaving a bigger hole that won't quite close all the way there is a trick to that: only punch your lines when the leather is completely dry, don't driver the punch all the way to the hilt, and ALWAYS make sure that you have a stitching groove on the presentation side. All too often with some of the modern examples of hand-stitched work I see that there is no stitching groove where the stitching line is. This groove is the channel that helps give your stitches a uniform, straight, clean look and also helps to protect the thread from early wear as it protects it from rubbing on everything and from moving around (which we all know weakens the fibers of the material). Not to mention, one of the most common questions ever asked in any forum on the web is "how do I get my stitching to look like this" and then have an image of a perfect line that is even and clean.

There are several users of the awl that I also notice when I am monitoring classes and other venues where leather is being worked that do not use a spacing wheel first to ensure that they have even hole placement, there is nothing more unprofessional looking than unequally spaced stitches that meander all over the place. There are so many examples of this result that you can find thousands of them by just doing a simple internet search for hand-stitched leather goods and then viewing the images. Most scary part of this is that the vast majority of those items are actually being sold online and frequently for prices higher than most of us list our works.

The bottom line is that either method is fine and everyone has to pick their direction but we all have to ensure that we do it right all of the time.

[Tannin]

... All too often with some of the modern examples of hand-stitched work I see that there is no stitching groove where the stitching line is. This groove is the channel that helps give your stitches a uniform, straight, clean look and also helps to protect the thread from early wear as it protects it from rubbing on everything and from moving around (which we all know weakens the fibers of the material). ..

I'm pretty new to this but from I can gather, cutting a stitching groove is the prevalent(/traditional?) style in the USA but in England saddlers do not traditionally/normally cut a groove unless there is a particular need to protect the stitching concerned. I believe the reason is that the outer layer of the leather is the toughest part, so they want to leave that intact. Nigel Armitage marks his stitch line with a pair of dividers (e.g. set to 6mm from the edge) & then marks even stitch hole positions along the line with a pricking iron. Then uses the awl to open up the slots cut by the pricking iron, one stitch at a time.

That's not to say one method is better than the other - just different. With the thick leathers that I am currently using for relatively light duty, cutting a groove would not be a problem and might well improve my stitching. It would reduce the thickness of leather that the awl has to go through too.

Edited September 2, 2014 by Tannin

[jqtoms]

MonicaJacobson,

Please excuse my ignorance, I am new to this. You said above "I use a pricking iron and go all the way around in advance. I have sewed two pieces of 9 oz together in this fashion. Lots of counting holes, though."

What did you mean by counting holes?

I have used a pricking iron to and then diamond awl to sew. The thread was too large the pricking iron's spacing so I skipped a mark each time. Is that what you are referring to?

Thanks.

[MonicaJacobson]

HiJQ,

If the project is small enough, I glue the two pieces of leather together before I pierce the holes. If I'm using the pricking iron to put holes in a gusset, I usually count them when I finish to make sure both gussets have the same number of holes. Otherwise, it will come out uneven. It's not a problem if everything is exactly the same size and you're not careless, but I often make mistakes, so I like to make sure.

Also, when I'm making something with softer, thinner, chrome tanned leather, the leather tends to stretch when I use the pricking iron, and I'll have too many holes on one side and not enough on the other. I suspect this is because I don't own very good pricking irons. Or perhaps in those cases, I should just use an awl to make the holes.

What projects are you working on, and how many holes per inch are you using? You might want to invest in smaller thread. Tiger thread comes in .8 mm, which is plenty small for everything but watch straps and wallets. You can get it from Ludlow Leather supply, and it's basically the same price as cheap Tandy thread.

[jqtoms]

Monica,

Thanks for the reply.

I bought this set: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CBRVKOK/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I use it to make mark where I wanted to put the holes on the finished side. I did not mark the back side except for a groove to line up the awl when it came out the backside.

Because I am rather new, I have bought numerous threads and it has been hit and miss. I bought some Thread Exchange. One shipment was too thin (thread for machine sewing) and the other was too large for the diamond awl (waxed polyester #554). I ordered some 1mm from Ludlow a few days ago and am looking forward to trying it out. Now I am afraid it may be too thick and I should have ordered the .8mm.

I am making a leather clutch out chromexcel and I think it may be too thick. It was my first craft leather purpose. I do not know the exact thickness because it was scarps from Aurora Shoe Company. I will order a 5 or 6 ounce next time unless I find out that is what I have now. I pretty much have to order and compare different products because I do not know leather people here. My first three projects looked much better than this past one because I used a 4 prong hole punch which leaves a pretty large whole that I am pretty sure rope could fit through

With this leather and the diamond awl, I found the holes to have hardly a diamond shape.

[MonicaJacobson]

I can't really give you the best information, unfortunately. I largely only make bags, and .8 mm looks good on that size. I made a wallet/clutch recently and found out that the 6 holes per inch pricking iron I was using was not small enough, I needed smaller needles and even thinner thread than .8mm. If everything is too big, the leather tends to get mangled, especially as you really need to use thin leathers, something else I found out on that project.

I haven't gotten around to researching what I will need yet, but I do know I need a nice pricking iron that is more like 8-10 spi. Sorry I can't be more precise than that. There are a lot of wallet makers here that could probably give you better information.

But don't let that discourage you. The best thing you can do is just try it with what you've got and see how it goes. It's always fun to see your own progress as you do more projects and get better.

Go through the forums with the search option. It's time consuming, but if you find someone's work you really like, they'll often say what oz leather they used, what size thread, and you can ask them what kind of tools they have.

[jqtoms]

Thanks again Monica. I appreciate your time and thoughts. I will search around for pieces and their crafters. Have a good weekend!

JT

[lranger]

I punch all the holes before stitching and I use two different sized awls. One is very short and a little larger in diameter than the other one, which is also longer. Reason for the two different sizes is the thickness and type of leather. (smaller holes for thinner leather) On vegtan, I always use a stitching groove, and most of the time I even put a groove on the backside, too. I just like the way it looks better and it protects the thread. Putting a groove on the backside is a little tricky to get your hand punched holes to hit the groove. You have to have a very even edge and use a grooving tool that slides along the edge of the leather. That makes the groove the same distance from the edge on both sides. When you're punching the holes you have to be real careful not to lean your awl any. Once I have the stitching groove done, I punch the first hole, then run my stitching wheel around the groove to mark the holes, then go around it with the awl to put the holes in. Sometimes I punch the holes with the parts separate, and sometimes I'll put the two pieces together and punch the holes thru all the layers at once. Depends on what it is. If I'm punching thru several layers I generally have it glued together already. I use rubber cement on leather that will stretch, like buckskin, in small amounts. On smaller projects, I do all this on the bench, by hand. On larger pieces, like saddle parts, I chuck up an awl point in a tabletop drillpress and punch the holes. You'd kill your hand if you didn't. I DON'T DRILL THE HOLES with a bit.

Like Monica said, I also do a fair amount of hole counting, particularly when sewing buckskin clothing. Some projects require a lot of counting. Others don't.

I don't like the pricking irons. I have tried a diamond shaped awl in the drillpress on saddle skirts, but I don't use it any more because I feel the holes are too long/big. It's all mostly a matter of personnal preference. I think everyone should do it the way they are most comfortable, and how they like it. This is how I do it.

Keith

[DavidL]

My technique is I count the stitches as I am hitting them. For instance I'm using an 8 prong iron, I hit the iron once count is 8, overlap by 3 prongs and add 5 to the count.

So it goes first hit is 8, next is 13,18,23 and so on (counting hits of the iron works too). When I go and hit the opposite piece I do the same thing so that the amount of stitches are the same. On top of all that I measure 4mm or whatever distance from the edge to the first stitch with a compass to match the first stitch.

Do use the proper thread to SPI.

General guide lines:

If you want fine stitching go with .58mm threads for 6-9spi, .63mm thread for 5-8spi, .73mm thread for 6 and under

A thicker western style - .7- 1mm for 4-7 spi

Edited September 20, 2014 by DavidL

[Macca]

.58mm thread for 6 SPI ???

errr, no.

More bad advice

[DavidL]

.58mm thread for 6 SPI ???

errr, no.

More bad advice

Done it before. Looks all right to me, although it is stretching it a bit.

7 SPi at .58mm is perfect size imo.

Not sure how its bad advice but.. ok.

Edited September 20, 2014 by DavidL

[Macca]

Its bad advice because its just wrong, you dish out bad advice all over the forum, based on stuff you have read or just think, not experience, seriously, you are not helping anyone with your posts.

the lower the SPI the thicker the thread required for the same strength

You post numbers & even call them general guidelines, numbers no-one would recognise, they are far too thin for the SPI, both from a strength & asthetics viewpoint.