Russ Posted September 28, 2014 Report Posted September 28, 2014 Really, so they started off with a business plan before having the skills or product people might want to buy? This is a post from David remember, always looking for shortcuts etc, from day one rabbited on about marketing before he could even sew so please don't encourage him. Skills, then think about how to make money please. Yes. Two examples. 1. Me. I needed a saddle. I wasn't in any particular hurry, and was shopping around. I had transitioned from trail riding to mounted shooting, and was using borrowed equipment, which included saddle, tack, and gun rigs. I spent a year or so in the sport looking for equipment, saw the prices that the sellers were getting, and thought "I can do that." I spent another 6 months or so researching whether a viable business could be made just from the small shooters' nitch. As I got more serious, I developed a business plan to give me the idea of how much money to invest, potential ROI, time away from my full time job and, very importantly, potential liability to my personal assets. After that, I went to two classes: a saddle making class, and a holster making class. Both of them were taught by mounted shooters. Had I not had a ..... business plan .... I may have jumped into a saddle or holster class not specializing toward my business goal....which was to sell to mounted shooters. After going to the classes and closely questioning the instructors and other students, I purchased my first equipment (all of it basic hand tools) and leather. Thanks to my business plan which included going to the correct classes, I had a minimum cash outlay and sold my second saddle (my first one went to my wife, she uses it to shoot in today) and my fourth holster set (my first three stayed in the family, they could have easily been sold at about 70% of the cost of "name" rigs at the time). The business was up and running and frankly, the business plan had to be revised to account for the success. The mounted shooting gear business filled up my time. When I got within a year of retirement, I revisited my business plan and expanded it to include a 30' x 30' shop (no more working in the spare bedroom), and an expanded line of goods, CCW holsters, purses, and wallets. None of which I did without re-doing my business plan. Example 2: I have a friend who makes knives and sheaths. He enjoyed going to the mountain man festivals, and ended up at one of those Renaissance fairs (he was an actor, doing the bits in the streets for the spectators). He enjoyed looking at the knives and decided he could supplement his income with them. He showed me his business plan, which was very detailed, down to the last $. At the end of the business plan was: "At the 3rd quarter interval, profits from Phase I of the business will be reinvested in: proper schooling and education from a close personal friend who has a successful leatherworking business in the making of leather sheaths a) cost in to be ________ paid in full immediately, no liability to the ______________ business (my redactions. and I was the "leatherworker) materials and equipment necessary to complete said sheaths for sale. The following material will be needed: " My friend has now completely retired from the acting part of the fairs and just makes knives and sheaths full time, mostly knives. He has four employees. He sells cutlery to hardware stores and a few re-sellers who sell them. You may have his knives in your kitchen drawers. I could come up with several other examples but this post is already too long. If someone is sincerely interested in making a go of a business, they will make a business plan, I'd say, second. The first is after identifying a need in an area they have an interest. You don't really need the interest, IMO, but it makes life more enjoyable. The need is what's important, and can you fulfill it. If you put off the business plan, all you have is wasted money and time. You may have an interest, or a hobby, but that's not what DavidL was asking about. So many people in the "craft business" (I hate that term but it applies to leather business/hobbies) think they are the purest of the pure. "My skills, my skills" they exclaim. The look down on people that have an interest in making money. Or they trash someone selling on Etsy at a very reduced price to turnover their products to stay viable to continue their passion. It's rediculous. As for your personal attack on DavidL, that has no place on this board, although, sadly, it seems to be more common here. Russ Quote
Russ Posted September 28, 2014 Report Posted September 28, 2014 I've participated heavily in many many online forums ranging over very different topics and by far this is the friendliest and most helpful (it also has moderators who are on top of their sh!t...in my opinion sometimes a bit too much but that's a different conversation). There is very little harsh talk or personal attacks on this forum compared to some others I've participated in. David has a track record for dishing out bad advice and then stubbornly holding on to his point even though he and everyone else knows he's wrong. I understand where Macca is coming from. I will defer to your opinion Joe, as I have a lot of respect for your posts and opinions. I spend less and less time on boards, forums, and commentary places on the internet as it's becoming a disgusting cesspool. That said, I'm tired of the attacks and criticisms that I read on this board too. I probably wouldn't notice David's posts because I skip 95% of the posts here anymore. At least the "ignore list" works ok on this forum. Not great, but pretty good. Quote
Members DavidL Posted September 28, 2014 Author Members Report Posted September 28, 2014 I come from a family of business men. My father, uncle, grandfather and my great grandfather all did business. I suppose stubbornness of not allowing other peoples biased opinions was what made them successful - they all had original thoughts and didn't conform to people telling them they are wrong even though its a matter of perspective in most cases. My mother side was mostly tailors, artists, hairdressers and businessmen. Both of those skill sets from my fathers and mother side is a mix between business and art which is what leather working is in essence. I enjoy the art of business as much as I enjoy the art of leather working. I also try to learn about, tanning, screen printing, different types of manufacturing and how the end use would be affected the manufacturing process to customer. That way when it comes to start my business if I'm thinking about screen printing, embossing or hot foiling I would understand how it works out before its done, which is the reason people write business plans before they start producing so they know roughly how it would work out before they started producing leather goods that don't sell to a particular demographic. @macca - yes they do start with a business plan before they have the product to sell. Most companies do that. For instance if you were to think about selling t shirts, the first thing you would do is lay out a business plan to see if there is a market. Everything from profit margins, competitors, SWOT analysis ect. are outlined in the business plan, then you would go and produce the product, obtain suppliers, transportation, staff, book keepers.. Business isn't something you take for granted. You could go in debt, lose your house if you take it lightly. Quote
Members Hi Im Joe Posted September 28, 2014 Members Report Posted September 28, 2014 I will defer to your opinion Joe, as I have a lot of respect for your posts and opinions. I spend less and less time on boards, forums, and commentary places on the internet as it's becoming a disgusting cesspool. That said, I'm tired of the attacks and criticisms that I read on this board too. I probably wouldn't notice his posts because I skip 95% of the posts here anymore. At least the "ignore list" works ok on this forum. Not great, but pretty good. Thanks Russ. I'd say more but my comment would be moderated. Oh well. I come from a family of business men. My father, uncle, grandfather and my great grandfather all did business. I suppose stubbornness of not allowing other peoples biased opinions was what made them successful - they all had original thoughts and didn't conform to people telling them they are wrong even though its a matter of perspective in most cases. I doubt that is what made them successful. Quote http://www.sevenhillsleather.com/
Members DavidL Posted September 28, 2014 Author Members Report Posted September 28, 2014 yea.. I suppose its just coincidence that they all are business owners not because they are persistent. Quote
Members benlilly1 Posted September 28, 2014 Members Report Posted September 28, 2014 Even though there are differing opinions here, it's great to see all aspects and passion involved in being a business owner. Quote
Members Hi Im Joe Posted September 28, 2014 Members Report Posted September 28, 2014 I appreciate the mods here but I wish my comments weren't all deleted. Especially comments that are not offensive. I mean my last comment had nothing offensive in it at all. It was well reasoned and contained no foul language as well as no personal attacks. I guess I should just not bother commenting in these threads. Quote http://www.sevenhillsleather.com/
Members papaw Posted September 29, 2014 Members Report Posted September 29, 2014 I had no intent of starting to sale items when I started but after making so many item and they start plying up ( and the expense you have to do something ), so my granddaughter wishes to learn so we will start out small and work up that way she will always have a skill to work with after I am gone. But now we've put together a plan that will hopefully last her in life. I've owned two other businesses one was two book stores and one was a overhead millwright crane service and both where sold as up and running business The skill and heart has to be in place first' then a well put together plan and not the expectation of high returns at start up (sometimes it happens but not the norm). Being ready to put in long hours and at time having to deal with people that do not understand the skill it takes to do this art. And understand why there are less businesses doing this full time, many younger adults today do not understand craftsmanship and quality of the item, the price everything ( if only it was cheaper ) and many older just don't have the money to spend. This could go on forever etc etc and there will be many opinions and all can work but be sure as it may be enjoyable as a hobby and a chore as your job, are you willing to put the time in, your still not the BOSS the customer is. Quote Papaw Indiana Calumet Area Leather Guild Happy to be old enough to know better, but young enough to still do it !!
Members barehandcustoms Posted November 13, 2014 Members Report Posted November 13, 2014 (edited) I also fit into the no business plan model for starters. I stumbled into leather when I thought the sheath I wanted cost way too much. I set out to make my own sheath and found out the hard way exactly why high quality leather sheaths cost so much. I sell sheaths now that cost more than the sheath I originally wanted. Funny how things work out....... Did they take out a loan, get a government grant? Absolutely not..... Do not build your business on debt unless you are a successful business owner and already know how to start up a business then rapidly grow it. I would strongly suggest you grow slow and organically until you are in the position to really capitalize on a small business loan. You shouldn't consider taking on debt to grow your business until you have a customer base and need to scale up to meet their demand. You need to reinvest that profit into your business to grow it...not to pay off debt Sell through the newspaper? locally? I cut my teeth on local custom jobs but have moved to almost strictly online sales. How much money did you start with. I started with maybe $200 worth of tools in a storage shed behind my house. I cleaned it out and built a basic work bench. I kept reinvesting a majority of the profits back into my business until I had enough to build my actual leather shop several months ago. As much as I love my new shop and all the new fancy machines.....I would not appreciate it if I had not froze my ass off in that storage shed for a year making leather. Also would like to hear of any things that you would consider beginner mistakes that you encountered. Buy good tools that will last *an expensive tool doesn't equal a good tool* Don't under value your products Wait until you have the money to buy things....don't grow on debt Breakthroughs in your business plan or in your thinking. Don't constantly compare your product and price to competitors. What works for them most likely won't work for you. Worry about making the best leather product you can and getting the most you can get for it. Don't be a stubborn know it all. I actually talk to my competitors and ask them questions about when they were at my stage in the game. It sounds absurd but some of the best advice I have got came directly from my competitors. You will learn the most at your bench when you are actually working. It's great to come on here and ask questions when you are stumped but nothing beats getting your ass out in the shop and putting in work. Follow up with your customers a few weeks after the sale and ask for feedback on your product. Customers can be brutally honest and that is exactly what you need in the beginning to iron out problems. Edited November 13, 2014 by barehandcustoms Quote
Members DoubleC Posted November 14, 2014 Members Report Posted November 14, 2014 I guess I'm kinda the odd man out (uh woman) in this thread because I believe a business plan is very important. However we have a community service center here that helped me with my business plan. I was multitasking at the time. I'd meet once a week with her and give her the info she had asked for the week before, and the rest of the time I was working with leather. I was kinda stuck on one item I was producing because it meant something to me....to others? Not so much. That was horse eyes as jewelry. I expanded to guitar straps (yup kinda weird shift) because I had two friends that were guitar players in bands. So all along I was buying leather, tools and figuring things out. And I was here a lot reading things and asking questions. I sold a few things the first year just word of mouth, a couple belts, a couple guitar straps, a couple dog collars and one horse eye to a friend of mine. I was making little side projects too in order to learn new skills. By the time the business plan was done I had a year in basically just practicing things. I posted everything here proudly, LOL and would get disheartened when someone didn't think it was perfect. Boy have I outgrown that. OK second year and summer. I had a platform to sell, the local farmer's market, and a business plan. It took me two years to get into that market which turned out to be good because I was really just learning that whole first year. So I went to Voc Rehab to get a grant. They had been involved from the beginning and I had to have a business plan finished to get anything. Which was good because I found out they kinda liked for you to have a product too They gave me 1500.00 to help me get off disability and if the business did well was going to give me another 1000.00. It was like a million bucks to me since up until then I had been buying all my supplies. I worked that summer, and then had an opportunity to work that winter at a different place we set up for ourselves. Then I heard about the Pass Plan Voc Rehab had so I applied for it. And so I was meeting with Voc Rehab every week and asked the woman who helped me with the first business plan to help me do another. I had grown and changed so much in those two years my first one seemed immature to me. I worked all summer, met with those two people and had just started in a winter flea market when I was notified my sister had been diagnosed with cancer, including brain tumors. That was exactly 11 months ago yesterday. I went to her but she didn't last very long and I came back Jan. 7th and haven't hit my stride yet. I did work this summer some at the farmers market, although not every week and kept accepting custom orders I had no interest in doing but did some how get them finished. But I never picked back up on my business plan or the Voc Rehab opportunity. I just see this as an extended set back and haven't changed my plans but rather just put them on hold waiting for me to do what I need to do. I think I had the best of both worlds while I was practicing and doing a business plan at the same time. I'm sorry some people don't seem to value them but I guess we all do things we are comfortable with. I do take exception to the OP that said using a sewing machine meant it wasn't hand made and was poor quality. I'm posting a picture of a chair I reupholstered for a man. I used 10 oz leather which means it was doubled to 20 oz where it needed to be sewn. You can see in the picture that I had to wet the leather just to get it to bend enough to sew. I used Herman Oak for the chair. The Chinese use a thin veneer of leather on both sides of things with a felt like material in between to make it as thick as real leather. I think this particular project would have been extremely hard to impossible to do hand sewing. The reason the arms are cut but not attached is because the owner was thinking of using nicer hard ware. Quote http://www.etsy.com/shop/DoubleCCowgirl
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