Covering an A fork or weatherly swell

[Timbo]

Is there a way to do this without a seam?? All the ones I seem to see have a seam sewn or laced up on the seat side of the swell cover. Is it just a matter of getting enough stretch out of the leather or is it just physically impossible to do??

Any tips or tricks to this??

Tim

[bruce johnson]

Tim

The slick forks are the easiest to cover because you don't have much slack to work out. The split you see in the handhole is the result of getting the cover over the horn and not having a big hole at the neck. If the horn cap is big or it necks down a lot, you have to split it to get it over. On some horns if you do a tradtional one piece cap and wings and cover the horn first, you might need to split one that wouldn't need it on the bare horn.

[Hidemechanic]

Tim,

Ditto Bruce. You just have to get the feel of "working" your leather(No you don't need to use crappy soft stuff just good leather). It is not a quick process. I use a combination of rub tools(bouncer, rub stick or my chinaman handle) but there is also stretching and pulling(lasting pliers). I do some skiving and feathering around edges that need to make a smooth transitions, which helps things lay right.

I'll anchor on side, pull to the other side,(watch the centering of the horn hole) then start working.

Sometimes I will pink the horn hole which helps in stretching over the horn yet pull up tight around the horn base(or the appearence thereof) I will practice on scraps first before trying on the actual cover. Different ways to decorate around the base if one likes.

Depending on how I do my front edge I may remove the cover a few times to do other work. If I have to use a lace up back, I don't cut all the down the back, just part way so I don't have to worry about pulling too much away from the split when shaping the rest of the cover(slick shouldn't have that much stretching and pulling anyway).

As Bruce said, it depends on how big you horn cap is, but I have done and seen done some pretty ratical swells covered with one piece(no welts, no split and lace) covers. I think it's fun because those who know recognise what it takes.

I also will do a split and lace to show off my lacing.

All takes practice. Good luck Have fun GH

Kind of asshamed to show some this early work, at least I know what I would change now.

#1,#2,#3 and one piece swell covers. #2,#3 are before and after dally wrap

#4 is one piece with laced back, Rawhide binding front(had a better angle but lighting made it hard to see).

[Timbo]

Glad to hear that is is not a necessity. So from what I am taking from this the smaller the horn is the less likely it will be that I have to split the swell cover.

Now for the next question: What is the best way to keep the horn as small as possible??

Guess it depends on how big the horn is to begin with, but I am going to try to keep it as small as possible..........any tips??

thanks,

Tim

[Hidemechanic]

Well first, splitting the sell cover isn't a bad thing. There are ways to lace it that is not complicated and looks good.

Second when it comes down to it, you will probably put a dally wrap on it anyway so no one is goning to see it but you when and if you change the dally wrap. Look at pics 2-3 they are the same saddle but 3 has the dally wrap on it.

Maybe the others will chime in here and I'll learn a trick or two. I'm game.GH

Edited November 1, 2008 by Hidemechanic

[Timbo]

I wasn't planning on putting a dally wrap on the horn. Not saying I won't, just not planning on it at this point. If my horn comes out crappy looking I will for sure do a wrap on it!!

Tim

[Hidemechanic]

To me it depends what the saddle is going to be used for, but rarely do I not do some kind of dally wrap if the horn is going to have something hang from it at all. The D wrap helps protect the horn cover, not just for roping, but of course you don't have to wrap the horn.GH

[Hidemechanic]

Well first, splitting the sell cover isn't a bad thing. There are ways to lace it that is not complicated and looks good.

Second when it comes down to it, you will probably put a dally wrap on it anyway so no one is goning to see it but you when and if you change the dally wrap. Look at pics 2-3 they are the same saddle but 3 has the dally wrap on it.

Maybe the others will chime in here and I'll learn a trick or two. I'm game.GH

[Timbo]

Now if I could lace like that I wouldn't worry about making a split!!!!

Nice job!!!

Know of any tutorials on that??

Tim

Edited November 4, 2008 by Timbo

[Hidemechanic]

Thanks Tim, looking back I probably should have used smaller holes so things blend better and so you can't see through to the tree.

I'll see if I can put something together on that pattern, if someone doesn't already have something they can put on here. Just takes practice, like all this stuff.GH

[TrooperChuck]

Timbo, thanks for posting this subject. And Hidemechanic, thanks for posting your thoughts and pics. I'm about to start a Santa Fe-type saddle, so this subject was really interesting.

[Go2Tex]

Regards keeping the horn small, try splitting your leather pieces down a bit. The middle, or filler piece, doesn't need to be thick at all. I temper it really well, so it's nice and hard. Then, when you are pressing the edges together with the pliers, try to get the crease line as close to the horn as possible and stitch as close as possible too. You can pound with a hammer on the area of the crease to make it thinner also. After you do your initial fitting of the bottom piece, establishing the location of the fold and stitch line, take it off and pound it down on the flesh side with a hammer. After stitching, cut the excess off as close as you can to the stitches without compromising it and that's about the best you can do about the size, that I've found.

As to the fork cover horn hole on a big horn, the only way to do it without a split that I've seen is to cover the horn after coving the fork. If there is a way, I'd sure like to see how it's done.

[D.A. Kabatoff]

Hi Tim,

my post may be a little late to help you but it isn't that difficult to cover a fork without splitting the back of it. A big part of the process has to do with the proportion of the horn neck thickness compared with the cap diameter. The bigger the cap, the thicker the neck needs to be. The reason for this is simple, if you need to cut a 1 1/2" hole in the fork cover to get it over the cap, your neck needs to have some thickness to it to fill the hole. I have posted a few photos of a slick fork (sorry the photos aren't better) with a metal horn. You can see from the tree that the cap is fairly large compared to the thin neck. When I covered the horn, I made a point of using fairly heavy leather for the wings of the neck so the neck would finish up thick. It definitly takes some pulling to get that small hole over the finished cap. I usually fit my fork cover before wrapping the horn so that it is ready to install the first time I pull it over the wrapped horn. It's a bit easier if the leather is fairly wet and a bit of saddle soap on the bottom side of the fork cover around the hole and some on the top of the horn cap and around the edges helps as well.

The last photo is a good example of needing the right proportions of neck thickness to cap diameter. That cap was 5"s in diameter before being covered so when I ordered the tree, I asked my treemaker to make the neck thicker than he normally makes them.

Hope that helps a little.

Darc

[Go2Tex]

Wow Darc, I didn't think it could be done without stretching that hole so out of shape it would never look right, but you done it on that one, apparently. Learn something every day on this forum......

I notice you skive the cover down pretty good around the hole too. I suspect that helps some. I don't think I could do it that way, though. When fitting the cover, I end up putting it on and taking it off too many times to have to fight getting it over the horn each time. But, I really like your idea of fitting the cover before you cover the horn for that nice tight fit.

[Timbo]

Thanks, Darc. That helps immensely!!

Tim

[Hidemechanic]

D.A.K.

That's a good explaination. Some things we do and never think about articulating the details of the process.

Nice work too btw.

Who made the tree?

GH

[BondoBobCustomSaddles]

Tim,

A final word. Basically all the info in other posts is good. If you feel that you need a more detailed description of how to do it, with or without a slit and lacing, the best explanation I have seen, is in the Encyclopedia of Saddle Making by Al Stohlman. Very detailed, and if you take your time and follow all the information, you will end up with a professional looking finish.

Bondo Bob

[D.A. Kabatoff]

Hi GH,

that tree came from Glenn Christman of Pincher Creek, AB. I like the shop accesory you have on the table in the background of picture three... cute!

Go2tex,

I usually do about a 3/4" skive around the edge of the horncap and depending on the type of horn, I'll leave more or less thickness. For any horn that I'm doing a cap and wrap I leave the leather around 3-4 oz at the very edge so that my wrap doesn't sink into the crease left by a thicker edge. On a metal horn like the one in the picture, I usually leave the edge around 6-8 oz.

Something that may be of use to you if you find that you are putting on and taking off your fork covers alot is to make a couple patterns. Make a pattern of a handhole so that you can trace it on the ground work and cut the same size hole all the time... do that and your pattern of a fork cover should always fit the same through the handhole. If you are covering wade forks that are always the same, fit a fork cover and save it for future trial fits. Make a paper pattern of that cover so that any Wade you need to do in the future, all you have to do is trial fit the previously fit pattern and if it fits, use your paper pattern to cut a new cover for the fork. You then only need to do all your skiving and install it once; should save you time and some leather. I do this with a few of my patterns for common fork covers, common cantle sizes, and also for gullet shields... probably got enough patterns lying around to make a saddle or two. Incidentally, I don't always do a trial fit if I know the fork or gullet or cantle is exactly the same as the last one.

Darc