Question About Bison Leather And Re Veg Leather

[Padenlopez]

When trying to find buffalo or bison leather i can only find 30% veg tanned or 30% reveg leather. My question is can u wet mold 30% veg tanned or re veg leather and will it make items rust assuming it has some chrome tanning done to it? Thank you for your time and posts

[MonicaJacobson]

I don't think people usually wet mold bison. It's usually softer and more supple. In fact, I don't think people usually mold any kind of pre-finished veg tanned. I have some Dublin Horween that is dyed, finished, but also veg tanned, and I don't think you're supposed to wet mold it. I could be wrong, but that's my impression. I think it would mess up the finish and dye, for one thing.

[25b]

Is there any kind of tutorial that discusses wet-molding veg tanned leather and then adhering something like bison leather on the outside of a case or anything similar? There are a few cases I'd like to make that would look very nice with exotic on the outside, but on molded cases.

[mikesc]

Make sure that when you see "buffalo" that they don't mean this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_buffalo

I use / buy lambskin, goatskin ( kid ), cowhide and buffalo , and usually buffalo in international leather sales and market ( garment and hide descriptions ) means Asian buffalo, not Bison.

[MonicaJacobson]

Oh yeah, I saw water buffalo bends on the springfield leather website finished in Crazy Horse style. What is water buffalo like?

[mikesc]

Softer than Cowhide in the same thickness, but more hardwearing, less "smooth", makes for better wearing biker wear ( vests, jackets, pants, chaps etc ), more "character" to the hide.

I prefer it to cowhide for apparel, sews a liitle easier than cowhide too, but, if you want that "smooth" "dressed up" look then you go cowhide.

You also tend to get less of a wide range of colours in water buffalo.

Usually you'll see it in black or darks, ( when I ask for light colours my suppliers go "Oh c'mon, we got black or browns or darks, lights are going to cost more" ) if you want your brand new leather gear to look less brand new, go buffalo.

Most of the people wearing buffalo, are thinking it is cow, because that was what it was sold as.

The hides are cheaper to buy than cow, which has a lot to do with the previous sentence.

We sell buffalo apparel as buffalo apparel.

[Padenlopez]

So when they say 30% veg what does that mean?

[MonicaJacobson]

Thanks Mikesc - I might have completely glossed over the "water" and expected buffalo hides. In fact, that's what I was doing. I only realized it when I saw your comment. Thanks for the clarification and information.

[mikesc]

So when they say 30% veg what does that mean?

Presumably that some is /are "veg" tanned, like if there are 10 hides , 3 are "veg" tanned or they may be saying that the Bison are "veg" and the buffalo will be "chrome" or the other way around ? I really can't see how you can tan the same hide 30% veg and the finish the final 70% "chrome" or vice versa, for me it is an "each hide is either 100% veg tan or 100% chrome tan", I have never had a tannery describe the same hide as 30% veg tan 70% chrome. ( But, then again maybe some tanneries do begin "veg" and finish "chrome", can't see how the chemistry would be compatible, seems like it would result in patchy colour and finish, and be an awfull lot of "faffing about", but I do work with some tanneries who do both types of tanning, and have suppliers of OEM finished goods who offer both types of leather when I send them a design ), maybe where you saw run both systems ? I'd ask them for "clarification" though, if you are selling on what you make then ambiguities could come back to bite your donkey

[25b]

I've bought "veg tan re-tan" leather from Waterhouse Leather and there's nothing "patchy" about it...just beautiful leather. I'm making an iPad case for a friend with it right now because she really admired my own made of the same leather.

[mikesc]

Is the "re-tan" part of "veg tan re-tan" meaning "chrome tan" ?

If so is the leather dark or light ? I can see darks working out OK , but lights , whites and pastel shades and pearls, or some of the "washed" and opalescent effects would be easier to do consistantly just using the one process rather than "process mixing".

An ipad case is pretty small even the 10" model. I'd be wary about trying to use two or three hides to make a vest or a "perfecto" style or a dress using something that was treated mixed process, but as I've never been offered it, maybe it does work OK, but the chemistry needed does seem to me to be unnecessarily complex.

Edited October 3, 2014 by mikesc

[25b]

I don't think you're going to make a dress out of 5oz case leather, but ok...

[mikesc]

I make them out of lighter weight lambskin than that

[25b]

I make them out of lighter weight lambskin than that

...I would hope so. lol I was saying this leather I'm using to make these bags is far too stiff for any kind of garment...

[mikesc]

You'd be surprised at the weights and stiffness / rigidity that some of the "restraining leather apparel" is made from , there is a whole alternative world out there, some of it with the studs, spikes and rivets on the inside.Making for its adepts pays well too

[Padenlopez]

http://www.americanbisonleather.com/bison-leather/vegetable-tanned-leather/ This is the site i found the 25% re tan thing i think im just gonna email them and ask the same question anyone who wants to know let me know and ill post their
response on here

[oltoot]

Veeeery intelesting thread says an old guy. I have only seen a few scraps of these things and have been disappointed. I would like to see, if anybody has any ideas, 100% veg tanned american bison as that is one of what supported commercial western USA bison slaughter as meat,beyond tongues and some few salted products could not be produced, practically. Cattle hides were not yet available in any quantities and bison leather was in demand for coach springs, early water powered machine belts and luggage (mostly trunks). As the space cleared of bison became filled with cattle and railroads brought them to packing giants in Eastern population centers, cattle leather replaced bison leather in the supply chain.

[DavidL]

Some leather are re tans . Meaning they would tan it for instance like chrome tan then re tan it with bark or tannins to stiffen it up. It is more common in higher end leathers like the ones supplied by hermes tanneries - berenia.

[Padenlopez]

Thanks davidL ifound something saying that this morning but it was on wikipedia so i really didnt know if it was true or not. But i didnt ask the tanneries directly so whenever i get a response ill post it

[camano ridge]

Here is an explanation of different tanning processes from Weaver. Including Veg Chrome re tan and Chrome Veg re tan. See the box on the right hand side.

http://www.weaverleather.com/Supply/InfoandResources/LeatherTanningProcess.aspx