Fenice Edge Paint Peeling Off

[mrtreat32]

Just recently started using fenice edge paint (tandy pro) and I have been super happy with the results. My edges are looking much smoother but there is one big catch. I have been carrying a few of my recent wallet prototypes that I used the Fenice paint on and 2 of them have areas with the edge peeling off (mostly on areas where the leather bends). I was wondering if anyone who uses this paint has any tips to make this edge paint last.

The areas where it peeled off are completely natural color underneath. This paint looks great but doesnt seem to penetrate into the leather at all. Seems to sit completely on top.

I just took some edge kote and the fenice and painted the edges of some scrap leather to compare how they dry and if they both peel off in the same way. I preferred the fenice results aesthetically in the beginning but Im under the impression that the edge kote actually dyes and penetrates the leather while the fenice just sits on top.

Looking forward to any tips or hearing from others with more experience using edge finishes.

thanks

[Hi Im Joe]

I actually bought the neutral colored fenice paint and mixed in black edge kote (b/c I wanted it to be black in color). It turned out that the combination of both of them worked better than either one by itself.

[mrtreat32]

I actually bought the neutral colored fenice paint and mixed in black edge kote (b/c I wanted it to be black in color). It turned out that the combination of both of them worked better than either one by itself.

I was actually considering doing a coat of the Edge Kote that way the leather is dyed and than going over it with the Fenice. That way if it peels off at least it will still be painted underneath. Maybe a similar result to what you got by mixing them.

[DoubleC]

I think the clue is in the names.....'kote.' I have heard of many people having problems with these products because the sit on the edge. A dye would work better. Cheryl

[MonicaJacobson]

I bought the neutral edge paint as well, and I plan to use dye underneath it. But I haven't really decided which projects need gum trag and which projects need edge paint. Or if you do gum trag, then edge paint. Gah. Or if you resign yourself to a lot of sanding. It does seem as if the fenice edge paint needs a lot of sanding.

[CustomDoug]

I was just thinking about ordering some Fenice edge paint.. but this has me reconsidering. Has anyone else had a problem with it peeling off? I was not planning to use dye under it, just a good sanding and a heated iron to set it, done twice.

Doug C

[MonicaJacobson]

In my very limited experience (I have some, but haven't put in the sanding time to get it perfect yet, since I've been using a lot of veg tanned lately), it penetrates so well that I can't see how it could peal off. That would indicate that it didn't penetrate at all, but sat on top of the edge. Whenever I've used it, it sinks in, and dries to a very hard edge, a bit like burned string. Not at all smooth. Then you have to sand it, put it on, let it dry, and sand it again. After that, I think you can put on one last coat, rub it, and get it smooth.

I don't have a heated iron, so I think I'm having more trouble getting it smooth quickly.

I noticed it does get gummy and uncooperative if you try to do anything with it before it dries.... I can imagine it would peel off in that scenario.

I plan to use it on a veg tanned and a chrome tanned strap on some personal bags I use, and see how it lasts with some heavy use.

[mrtreat32]

I was just thinking about ordering some Fenice edge paint.. but this has me reconsidering. Has anyone else had a problem with it peeling off? I was not planning to use dye under it, just a good sanding and a heated iron to set it, done twice.

Doug C

Im not saying its bad edge paint by any means. I really like the results as far as looks are concerned but I have had trouble with it peeling off so far. It is a very popular paint and has a good reputation so there is probably a trick to working with it more effectively.

I am experimenting on a piece of scrap leather at the moment and trying thinner coats. After I let that dry completely I tried peeling it off and it seemed to be a lot more permanent and harder to remove that way. I scraped it with my finger nail to see how it would hold over time if someone was using it as a wallet for example where the friction of removing it from a denim pocket might wear it down. Before I was applying it pretty thick and that seemed to make it softer and more susceptible to wearing off.

Im not saying what Monica said is not true but from what I have gathered so far it does not penetrate the leather at all. Maybe her method includes burning it on or some other process that Im not aware of. I have tried it on a few types of leather and after drying if you peel it off the color of the leather is completely untouched by the paint from what I see. Even on lighter color leathers such as a natural veg tan when removed the leather underneath looks completely fine afterwards and barely stains the leather at all..which could be a good thing as well if you made a mistake and needed to remove it? She said she is using a neutral color also so maybe its a different formula?

[mrtreat32]

I forgot to mention that the scrap piece where I am testing it with better results I did not slick the edge. On actual projects I am using saddle soap, water, and a bit of quick slick from Sheridan before applying the paint. I wipe that down before applying the paint but maybe that application is preventing the paint from adhering as well as I would like.

Angelus leather paints and others I have used haven't been a problem applying after that process.

[MonicaJacobson]

I forgot to mention that the scrap piece where I am testing it with better results I did not slick the edge. On actual projects I am using saddle soap, water, and a bit of quick slick from Sheridan before applying the paint. I wipe that down before applying the paint but maybe that application is preventing the paint from adhering as well as I would like.

Angelus leather paints and others I have used haven't been a problem applying after that process.

I honestly haven't given it an honest enough try to be definitive. I could certainly be wrong. However, what you said might make sense - I found that when I used gum trag and slicked the edge first, the fenice on top made a gummy mess that didn't work at all. I was more successful when I put it on a completely raw edge, let it dry, and sanded (and then repeated two or three times). I'll experiment with it more in the next day or so.

So far, I haven't bothered to use it on veg tan because gum trag and burnishing works so well.

[papaw]

I think the smoother the edge is finished the coating just peels and chips because it has nothing to hold on to, but to heavy and it chips easier.

[mrtreat32]

I think the smoother the edge is finished the coating just peels and chips because it has nothing to hold on to, but to heavy and it chips easier.

This could be but I was smoothing the edge underneath so that the paint on top would sit even across the piece and look as professional as possible. When I leave the edge more raw and apply it you can see the bumps through the top coat. Unless I put it on super heavy to compensate for anything underneath not being smooth?

Not really sure

[MonicaJacobson]

If these experiments fail, I'm going to take a note from Joe's book and try mixing edge kote and the fenice. I've had trouble with a gum tragged edge lasting forever... or else I wouldn't mess with fenice. It's not easy to deal with, that's for sure.

Oh, one other thing - it seemed to work better when I only burnished in one direction, rather than back and forth. And I really needed to use a burnishing wheel (and preferably a sanding wheel, though I don't have one set up right now). But, as I said, insufficient evidence.... I'll be quiet until I've tried it more.

[DavidL]

try playing around with the heat temp, along with moving it slower. You might need to also go farther in grit progression than you typically go just like sharpening a knife (240, 600, 800 on raw leather). 800 may be taking it too far, the paint needs a flat surface to adhere to at bare minimum. I also see people use sand paper after it is heated to take off the areas that don't bond well/stick up too much and add spots of paint and re apply heat then sand smooth with 1200 grit. Beeswax then paraffin and again 1200 grit is what I seen used too.

[Hi Im Joe]

Edge Kote definitely penetrates the edge. The Fenice seems to sit on top. I would not slick the edge first before applying the fenice. I've also found that you have to put the stuff on THICK and let it dry completely. Then sand and put it on THICK again. Keep doing that until you like what you see.

[CustomDoug]

Guys, I just watched the video on the Professional Edge Paint that Tandy sells (which is Fenice's Matt finish) and it mentions in the video that on chrome tanned leather it is recommended to first apply a "gloss edge agent" (does that mean their gloss top coat? I don't know) and letting it dry BEFORE adding the color coats. It does not mention why, but perhaps it has something to do with adhesion on soft leathers. Here's the page, click the how-to video then skip to 4:00 - http://www.tandyleatherfactory.com/en-usd/search/searchresults/2810-02.aspx

The other things to remember is that leathers have different absorption qualities depending on how they were tanned. I have wondered how well a water based paint would fair on the edge of say.. latigo or English Bridle with their oils, waxes, etc.

Doug C

[CampbellRandall]

On actual projects I am using saddle soap, water, and a bit of quick slick from Sheridan before applying the paint. I wipe that down before applying the paint

Your process is the problem.

Don't approach edge paint with the same technique as you would for burnishing raw veg-tan leather. If you are using saddle soap, waxes, oils, or gum, this will not only seal the pores of the leather (which will not give the paint something to hold onto), but the oils and waxes will repel the water based paint. Alcohol and oil dyes are designed to penetrate. Edge paints are designed to cover.

With this in mind, I have found the best process would be...

• STEP 1 - Base Coat
  • You need to build up a smooth sealed surface, so the first step would be apply the primer (AR6250) or color coat to the raw leather edge and let it dry.
  • Think of this as a primer coat on a car paint job.
• STEP 2 - Burnish / Smooth the Edge (i.e. sanding the primer)
  • You can use a burnishing machine (or sand by hand with fine paper) or hot glazing process, depending on the type of leather.
  • Burnishing is recommended for firm leathers such as veg tan, while hot glazing (with hot irons) is better for soft leathers like chrome tan.
• STEP 3 - Color Coat
  • Build up your layers, paint & burnish until you are happy with the finish.

• FINAL STEP
  • Apply a final color layer and let dry - or -
  • Use the AR6350P or UW series clear coat to seal if desired

Our company imports and distributes Fenice Edge paints (since 2006) as well as the machines for factory use.

We have a wider variety of colors and options than Tandy, and our prices are even better.

Since we haven't been advertising on the site I try not to jump in with self promotions.

With interest in this paint picking up maybe its time I get in touch Johanna.

[CustomDoug]

I'd like to add too that the Campbell Randell guys offer not only Matt but gloss too, Tandy no.

However, I am not seeing the primer (AR6250) that was mentioned above:

http://www.campbell-randall.com/shop/index.php?route=product/category&path=43_51_162&page=1

Regarding the above steps... just to clarify - does STEP 1 take place AFTER any sanding is done at all or not ?

Doug C

[Hi Im Joe]

Your process is the problem.

Don't approach edge paint with the same technique as you would for burnishing raw veg-tan leather. If you are using saddle soap, waxes, oils, or gum, this will not only seal the pores of the leather (which will not give the paint something to hold onto), but the oils and waxes will repel the water based paint. Alcohol and oil dyes are designed to penetrate. Edge paints are designed to cover.

With this in mind, I have found the best process would be...

• STEP 1 - Base Coat
  • You need to build up a smooth sealed surface, so the first step would be apply the primer (AR6250) or color coat to the raw leather edge and let it dry.
  • Think of this as a primer coat on a car paint job.
• STEP 2 - Burnish / Smooth the Edge (i.e. sanding the primer)
  • You can use a burnishing machine (or sand by hand with fine paper) or hot glazing process, depending on the type of leather.
  • Burnishing is recommended for firm leathers such as veg tan, while hot glazing (with hot irons) is better for soft leathers like chrome tan.
• STEP 3 - Color Coat
  • Build up your layers, paint & burnish until you are happy with the finish.

• FINAL STEP
  • Apply a final color layer and let dry - or -
  • Use the AR6350P or UW series clear coat to seal if desired

Our company imports and distributes Fenice Edge paints (since 2006) as well as the machines for factory use.

We have a wider variety of colors and options than Tandy, and our prices are even better.

Since we haven't been advertising on the site I try not to jump in with self promotions.

With interest in this paint picking up maybe its time I get in touch Johanna.

Awesome post! Thanks for the insight.

[mrtreat32]

Your process is the problem.

Don't approach edge paint with the same technique as you would for burnishing raw veg-tan leather. If you are using saddle soap, waxes, oils, or gum, this will not only seal the pores of the leather (which will not give the paint something to hold onto), but the oils and waxes will repel the water based paint. Alcohol and oil dyes are designed to penetrate. Edge paints are designed to cover.

With this in mind, I have found the best process would be...

• STEP 1 - Base Coat
  • You need to build up a smooth sealed surface, so the first step would be apply the primer (AR6250) or color coat to the raw leather edge and let it dry.
  • Think of this as a primer coat on a car paint job.
• STEP 2 - Burnish / Smooth the Edge (i.e. sanding the primer)
  • You can use a burnishing machine (or sand by hand with fine paper) or hot glazing process, depending on the type of leather.
  • Burnishing is recommended for firm leathers such as veg tan, while hot glazing (with hot irons) is better for soft leathers like chrome tan.
• STEP 3 - Color Coat
  • Build up your layers, paint & burnish until you are happy with the finish.

• FINAL STEP
  • Apply a final color layer and let dry - or -
  • Use the AR6350P or UW series clear coat to seal if desired

Our company imports and distributes Fenice Edge paints (since 2006) as well as the machines for factory use.

We have a wider variety of colors and options than Tandy, and our prices are even better.

Since we haven't been advertising on the site I try not to jump in with self promotions.

With interest in this paint picking up maybe its time I get in touch Johanna.

thanks for such detailed feedback. I am trying this right now on a new wallet.

I sanded the edges and used a 1000grit sandpaper as my final step and than applied a layer of the paint. I am waiting for this to dry completely so I can sand it down a bit and than I will apply another layer as you suggested. I have a feeling its going to adhere better.. I put a bit of the paint on a scrap piece of leather a few days ago and without typical burnishing process it seems to adhered much stronger.

The one drawback so far has been the applying of the first layer was a bit more complicated and messy since I wasnt working with a super smooth edge like previously. Do you think after the final sanding it would be ok to next time use just plain water and canvas before applying the paint? I assume since the paint is water based this should still allow it to hold very strong and give me a better edge to work with?

Thanks again for such a comprehensive response and I will be placing my next paint order through your site.