Fenice Edge Paint Peeling Off

[papaw]

I think the smoother the edge is finished the coating just peels and chips because it has nothing to hold on to, but to heavy and it chips easier.

[mrtreat32]

I think the smoother the edge is finished the coating just peels and chips because it has nothing to hold on to, but to heavy and it chips easier.

This could be but I was smoothing the edge underneath so that the paint on top would sit even across the piece and look as professional as possible. When I leave the edge more raw and apply it you can see the bumps through the top coat. Unless I put it on super heavy to compensate for anything underneath not being smooth?

Not really sure

[MonicaJacobson]

If these experiments fail, I'm going to take a note from Joe's book and try mixing edge kote and the fenice. I've had trouble with a gum tragged edge lasting forever... or else I wouldn't mess with fenice. It's not easy to deal with, that's for sure.

Oh, one other thing - it seemed to work better when I only burnished in one direction, rather than back and forth. And I really needed to use a burnishing wheel (and preferably a sanding wheel, though I don't have one set up right now). But, as I said, insufficient evidence.... I'll be quiet until I've tried it more.

[DavidL]

try playing around with the heat temp, along with moving it slower. You might need to also go farther in grit progression than you typically go just like sharpening a knife (240, 600, 800 on raw leather). 800 may be taking it too far, the paint needs a flat surface to adhere to at bare minimum. I also see people use sand paper after it is heated to take off the areas that don't bond well/stick up too much and add spots of paint and re apply heat then sand smooth with 1200 grit. Beeswax then paraffin and again 1200 grit is what I seen used too.

[Hi Im Joe]

Edge Kote definitely penetrates the edge. The Fenice seems to sit on top. I would not slick the edge first before applying the fenice. I've also found that you have to put the stuff on THICK and let it dry completely. Then sand and put it on THICK again. Keep doing that until you like what you see.

[CustomDoug]

Guys, I just watched the video on the Professional Edge Paint that Tandy sells (which is Fenice's Matt finish) and it mentions in the video that on chrome tanned leather it is recommended to first apply a "gloss edge agent" (does that mean their gloss top coat? I don't know) and letting it dry BEFORE adding the color coats. It does not mention why, but perhaps it has something to do with adhesion on soft leathers. Here's the page, click the how-to video then skip to 4:00 - http://www.tandyleatherfactory.com/en-usd/search/searchresults/2810-02.aspx

The other things to remember is that leathers have different absorption qualities depending on how they were tanned. I have wondered how well a water based paint would fair on the edge of say.. latigo or English Bridle with their oils, waxes, etc.

Doug C

[CampbellRandall]

On actual projects I am using saddle soap, water, and a bit of quick slick from Sheridan before applying the paint. I wipe that down before applying the paint

Your process is the problem.

Don't approach edge paint with the same technique as you would for burnishing raw veg-tan leather. If you are using saddle soap, waxes, oils, or gum, this will not only seal the pores of the leather (which will not give the paint something to hold onto), but the oils and waxes will repel the water based paint. Alcohol and oil dyes are designed to penetrate. Edge paints are designed to cover.

With this in mind, I have found the best process would be...

• STEP 1 - Base Coat
  • You need to build up a smooth sealed surface, so the first step would be apply the primer (AR6250) or color coat to the raw leather edge and let it dry.
  • Think of this as a primer coat on a car paint job.
• STEP 2 - Burnish / Smooth the Edge (i.e. sanding the primer)
  • You can use a burnishing machine (or sand by hand with fine paper) or hot glazing process, depending on the type of leather.
  • Burnishing is recommended for firm leathers such as veg tan, while hot glazing (with hot irons) is better for soft leathers like chrome tan.
• STEP 3 - Color Coat
  • Build up your layers, paint & burnish until you are happy with the finish.

• FINAL STEP
  • Apply a final color layer and let dry - or -
  • Use the AR6350P or UW series clear coat to seal if desired

Our company imports and distributes Fenice Edge paints (since 2006) as well as the machines for factory use.

We have a wider variety of colors and options than Tandy, and our prices are even better.

Since we haven't been advertising on the site I try not to jump in with self promotions.

With interest in this paint picking up maybe its time I get in touch Johanna.

[CustomDoug]

I'd like to add too that the Campbell Randell guys offer not only Matt but gloss too, Tandy no.

However, I am not seeing the primer (AR6250) that was mentioned above:

http://www.campbell-randall.com/shop/index.php?route=product/category&path=43_51_162&page=1

Regarding the above steps... just to clarify - does STEP 1 take place AFTER any sanding is done at all or not ?

Doug C

[Hi Im Joe]

Your process is the problem.

Don't approach edge paint with the same technique as you would for burnishing raw veg-tan leather. If you are using saddle soap, waxes, oils, or gum, this will not only seal the pores of the leather (which will not give the paint something to hold onto), but the oils and waxes will repel the water based paint. Alcohol and oil dyes are designed to penetrate. Edge paints are designed to cover.

With this in mind, I have found the best process would be...

• STEP 1 - Base Coat
  • You need to build up a smooth sealed surface, so the first step would be apply the primer (AR6250) or color coat to the raw leather edge and let it dry.
  • Think of this as a primer coat on a car paint job.
• STEP 2 - Burnish / Smooth the Edge (i.e. sanding the primer)
  • You can use a burnishing machine (or sand by hand with fine paper) or hot glazing process, depending on the type of leather.
  • Burnishing is recommended for firm leathers such as veg tan, while hot glazing (with hot irons) is better for soft leathers like chrome tan.
• STEP 3 - Color Coat
  • Build up your layers, paint & burnish until you are happy with the finish.

• FINAL STEP
  • Apply a final color layer and let dry - or -
  • Use the AR6350P or UW series clear coat to seal if desired

Our company imports and distributes Fenice Edge paints (since 2006) as well as the machines for factory use.

We have a wider variety of colors and options than Tandy, and our prices are even better.

Since we haven't been advertising on the site I try not to jump in with self promotions.

With interest in this paint picking up maybe its time I get in touch Johanna.

Awesome post! Thanks for the insight.

[mrtreat32]

Your process is the problem.

Don't approach edge paint with the same technique as you would for burnishing raw veg-tan leather. If you are using saddle soap, waxes, oils, or gum, this will not only seal the pores of the leather (which will not give the paint something to hold onto), but the oils and waxes will repel the water based paint. Alcohol and oil dyes are designed to penetrate. Edge paints are designed to cover.

With this in mind, I have found the best process would be...

• STEP 1 - Base Coat
  • You need to build up a smooth sealed surface, so the first step would be apply the primer (AR6250) or color coat to the raw leather edge and let it dry.
  • Think of this as a primer coat on a car paint job.
• STEP 2 - Burnish / Smooth the Edge (i.e. sanding the primer)
  • You can use a burnishing machine (or sand by hand with fine paper) or hot glazing process, depending on the type of leather.
  • Burnishing is recommended for firm leathers such as veg tan, while hot glazing (with hot irons) is better for soft leathers like chrome tan.
• STEP 3 - Color Coat
  • Build up your layers, paint & burnish until you are happy with the finish.

• FINAL STEP
  • Apply a final color layer and let dry - or -
  • Use the AR6350P or UW series clear coat to seal if desired

Our company imports and distributes Fenice Edge paints (since 2006) as well as the machines for factory use.

We have a wider variety of colors and options than Tandy, and our prices are even better.

Since we haven't been advertising on the site I try not to jump in with self promotions.

With interest in this paint picking up maybe its time I get in touch Johanna.

thanks for such detailed feedback. I am trying this right now on a new wallet.

I sanded the edges and used a 1000grit sandpaper as my final step and than applied a layer of the paint. I am waiting for this to dry completely so I can sand it down a bit and than I will apply another layer as you suggested. I have a feeling its going to adhere better.. I put a bit of the paint on a scrap piece of leather a few days ago and without typical burnishing process it seems to adhered much stronger.

The one drawback so far has been the applying of the first layer was a bit more complicated and messy since I wasnt working with a super smooth edge like previously. Do you think after the final sanding it would be ok to next time use just plain water and canvas before applying the paint? I assume since the paint is water based this should still allow it to hold very strong and give me a better edge to work with?

Thanks again for such a comprehensive response and I will be placing my next paint order through your site.