Blue guns

[rickybobby]

I have been making lots of Glock holsters because that is what I have to mold with, my friends with glocks are "swimming" in holsters I have made. I am ready to start some others but, what would be the most popular 4 or 5 blue guns to buy first? I really don't have a customer base yet but I would like to take some finished product to a gun shop that showed interest in hand made holsters.

I have noticed that most of the makers with websites have "shyed" away from making gunbelts, is there not enough profit in them? The prices I have seen are 60.00 to 85.00 for a double layer, plain (no tooling) stitched belt. At the saddle shop I work at we get $85.00 for a full tooled belt that I work on for 3 to 4 hours.

I am located in Az. and the 1911 is pretty popular here so my guess is that should be on the list.

Any help or comments are appeciated, all of you and your posts have been a huge help and I thank you for them.

Thanks,

Rick J.

[Echo4V]

I wouldn't presume to say which you should buy but I'll give you a list of the handguns that I see often here in Georgia. 1911's and 1911 clones are very popular as well as glocks and glock type pistols. After that I see a lot of S&W autos and then the revolvers, I tend to see mostly the S&W full frame revolvers and single action pistols more than any other revolvers. Occasionally I see some smaller snub nose "saturday night special" type pistols but I hardly ever see them in holsters. Hope this helps.

[Bree]

I wouldn't presume to say which you should buy but I'll give you a list of the handguns that I see often here in Georgia. 1911's and 1911 clones are very popular as well as glocks and glock type pistols. After that I see a lot of S&W autos and then the revolvers, I tend to see mostly the S&W full frame revolvers and single action pistols more than any other revolvers. Occasionally I see some smaller snub nose "saturday night special" type pistols but I hardly ever see them in holsters. Hope this helps.

Get yourself a standard XD-40 blue gun and you can use it for 9mm, 40 S&W and .45 ACP models from Springfield Armory. I don't think they will work for the new XD-M series.

[K-Man]

Get yourself a standard XD-40 blue gun and you can use it for 9mm, 40 S&W and .45 ACP models from Springfield Armory. I don't think they will work for the new XD-M series.

The Springfield XD .45 acp is a different size than the XD9 or 40. The XD-M is a different size all together, along with their XD tactical models.

Edited November 4, 2008 by K-Man

[Bree]

The Springfield XD .45 acp is a different size than the XD9 or 40. The XD-M is a different size all together, along with their XD tactical models.

I have an XD-45 Compact and the differences between it and the 40 are insignificant... same thing goes for the 9mm. The barrel length won't matter for most holster styles unless he is going to completely cover the barrel. Then you have to have the right length blue gun.

You are right about the XD-M That is basically a new model with different dimensions.

[K-Man]

There is a difference in the overall size, to include the width/thickness, etc. Each holster maker has to decide for themselves how critical those differences are in the proper fit of the gun in their respective holster designs. I know in a leather and all kydex holster that is well-molded to a 9/40 XD, the .45 version will not fit in it. Some holster makers utilize the larger .45 frame to mold all the XD models. Eventually that XD9 is going to start moving around in the holster, sometimes in pretty short order. IMO, that's not what you want to have happen. Slop in a holster may eventually create a safety issue. Perhaps if one had the time, they could query some of the top tier holstermakers and see if they utilize the specific gun to mold the holster or if they do the one size fits all method....

[Bree]

There is a difference in the overall size, to include the width/thickness, etc. Each holster maker has to decide for themselves how critical those differences are in the proper fit of the gun in their respective holster designs. I know in a leather and all kydex holster that is well-molded to a 9/40 XD, the .45 version will not fit in it. Some holster makers utilize the larger .45 frame to mold all the XD models. Eventually that XD9 is going to start moving around in the holster, sometimes in pretty short order. IMO, that's not what you want to have happen. Slop in a holster may eventually create a safety issue. Perhaps if one had the time, they could query some of the top tier holstermakers and see if they utilize the specific gun to mold the holster or if they do the one size fits all method....

Here are the slide dimensions:

.45ACP Service

bottom slide width: 1.087"

top of slide width: 0.948"

.40S&W Service

bottom slide width: 1.085"

top of slide width: 0.944"

9mm Service

bottom slide width: 1.051"

top of slide width: 0.914"

For a leather holster the 45 and 40 are practically identical. The 9mm is fractionally smaller. The Compact model is simply chopped on the grip... same grip as the Service but truncated. There are very slight differences in the ejector port position which should have no effect on a leather holster. Front and rear sight channels are the same for all.

My XD-45 and the XD-40 blue gun are identical in the position of the trigger guard which is a critical component for a holster. I used calipers to test that distance both at the front and back of the trigger guard from top of slide to bottom of the trigger guard. The distance from the top of slide to the bottom of the barrel is also identical measured by caliper.

I think you can buy the XD-40 blue gun and make leather holsters that will fit just about all the regular XD models. The biggest difference is between the XD-45 and the XD-9 and that difference is less than a millimeter. So if that .8 or .9 millmeter at the extreme is a deal killer then you have to buy more Blue Guns. For my sensibilities, the XD-40 Blue is fine. My $.02.

[K-Man]

Never mind....

Edited November 5, 2008 by K-Man

[TwinOaks]

Another thing to consider when choosing the blueguns: If you're going to be making holsters that utilize a very snug fit for retention, K-man has some valid points- even a little play can turn into slop, and tight molding is critical. I argued the point with him some while ago and made a complete arse of myself. After making some more holsters, and learning more than a little in the process, I realized that he knows a lot more than I do about holster making. If you wanted my 2 cents worth, I still owe ya some change.

Incidentally, for all tightly molded holsters I make, I use the actual pistol or revolover that will be in the holster- not a blue gun- and everything he said about tight fit (sometimes seeming too tight) has been absolutely on the mark.

Edited November 5, 2008 by TwinOaks

[K-Man]

TwinOaks:

Thanks for the comments. The basis for my comments come from my own experiences, and those include having made 5000+ holsters. The XD line of guns is the most popular semi-auto we make holsters for.

If a person is not concerned about the tight, molded, fit that the vast majority of customers are desiring in a holster, then you can settle for using one gun fits all type of holster. When you're talking about concealed carry, and the carrying of a loaded gun, then the perspective changes - or it should. That being that you provide the customer with a holster designed to fit that particular gun - period. There's lots of folks out there who can slap the leather together and call it a holster. As I mentioned earlier, you cannot put a .45 into one of my holsters molded for a 9mm. I know you can't do that either for kydex holsters from Comp-Tac. In fact, they don't even use blue guns for their molding - they use a genuine gun in the process. Same thing for Blade-Tech, the last time I checked. Same thing for the top tier leather holster makers. From my perspective, it's called quality control. The vast majority of my customers are pretty gun/holster saavy and know how a gun should fit in the holster. If it doesn't, they send it back. If that happens too often, you probably will lose them, and everyone they can tell, as a customer. It's that kind of quality control that contributes to the difference in your being considered just another leathercrafter/holster maker and someone considered knowledgeable in the making of a holster.

rickybobby:

With respect to your original question - the Springfield XD line; 3", 4", 5" 1911's, the new Ruger LCP, Kel-Tec's guns are very popular. The j-frame revolver (2") is also a popular choice.

[rickybobby]

Hi all,

Thanks for all the information. I appreciate all the information. The models you guys mentioned will be the first few I will look into.

If you don't mind telling the information, 1, How did you get your holster customers?

2, How many holsters do you make in a week?

3, Are you making heavy gun belts as well?

4, Are you selling thru gunshops? and what should I look out for doing so?

5, How did you go about starting your business?

Again, thank you for all the information you have already given.

[Shorts]

I started with 1911s. Myself and my family use them, so, building them is a no brainer. You will find differences in width in the fullsize 1911 from the various Manf. Learning which molds to use comes with a little practice. I added a certain gun if I got requests for them. That'll be a decision for you to make as to how you want to schedule to buy new ones. I'd highly recommend using model specific guns for holsters due to retention concerns. I prefer the right holster for the right model, as I think the quality is in the details. There are some models that can be used for a variety of guns, Glocks are an example, 1911s very often as well. But don't short change your reputation, its going to be your name on the leather.

For the last 6 or 7 months I've sold on Ebay and gun forums. I've tailored where by measuring my costs vs profits. Options for sale include making our own website, auction websites, forums, a local gun shop, gun shows, farmer's markets, a store front you put up.

I'm currently in the transition stage moving back home to the States so I'll have to get a few more things squared away in regards to state paperwork and FFL. Quick tip, go to your state's gov website, there should be a Business section in there that will lead you through the paperwork process. An option is Legalzoom.com

Along with holsters I make mag pouches and can make belts. Though at this stage without a machine stitcher, belts are very time intensive for cost so those will wait until the reopening. You'll have to figure out on your own what kind of pace to expect from yourself. Its not a race. And if starts to become one your quality will suffer for it. I think you should go about building for a month or so and see how you settle out as far as production goes. These first couple months you need to take notes so you can evaluate yourself. Time, materials, trends, etc. This will let you see and feel your baseline.

You'll also need to decide what kind of custom orders you'll take. I think every maker gets an oddball requests here and there. You need to decide if its worth your costs and TIME to pattern it and build it. If so, I highly recommend you get your money first. Its not fun to be left holding the bag on an odd part that doesn't really fit anything else when the customer up and vanishes.

Edited November 5, 2008 by Shorts

[rickybobby]

Shorts,

Thanks for the information!! I have Glocks and some friends of mine have them but here in Az. everyone has 1911's and I get teased something fierce!! lol!!

I would rather turn out really nice pieces that are durable and safe so I am learning as much as I can and trying different things on leather and carrying them to see what works and what does not. It cost some money for materials but this way my mistakes stay with me and do not make it to a customer. I am also developing my own style of things, take off's from others ideas but not a total rip off! There are some great holster makeers on this site and the web, I do draw from these but try to make them "my own" as well.

Thanks again,

Rick Jorgenson

[Tac]

RickyBobby... I agree with K-man on the recommended models. I live in Az. as well, and I sell 90% of the hosters I make to cops ( I am one, so they seem to trust me). Find out what the PD in your area carries or authorizes for off-duty carry and start from there. In the metro-Phoenix area it's either Glock (about 80%) or Sig (about 15%) or 1911 (5%) for issued/uniform guns.... Alot of cops have to carry their duty gun when they are in plain clothes as detectives or while attending court, training, etc. and they are looking for a plain clothes (not a duty belt style) holster for that gun.... Off duty guns tend to be smaller versions of the full sized duty gun. The J-frame S&W .38 is always a popular off duty gun/back up weapon, with the Glock 26/27 being a large performer too in that area.

In Az you will NEVER go wrong building a good 1911 holster....

Outside the L.E. market, look at the XD, Glock, 1911, J-frame S&W, Kel-Tec and Kahr Arms. These guns are all popular with the CCW crowd for obvious reasons.

Good Luck.

-Tac

[hivemind]

Have you considered using airsoft guns for molds? Many of them are correct in all dimensions to the real thing, and you could pick up a broken gas pistol on many airsoft forums for a song ($20-$30).

[rickybobby]

Have you considered using airsoft guns for molds? Many of them are correct in all dimensions to the real thing, and you could pick up a broken gas pistol on many airsoft forums for a song ($20-$30).

Thanks for the tip,

I have heard of others picking up toy guns on ebay to mold off of but I worry about sizing. To get proper "draw" vs. retension for a customer I think the "blue guns" are the way to go. They are $35.00 and you can put them in a press, rub on them to mold to shape and not worry about breaking them and they are EXACT size of the guns your customer will be carrying.

I am lucky the owner of the saddleshop I work at has a friend that owns the gunshop down the street so when I need a gun to size for a customers gun I get the real thing to work with. But I am starting my own leather business from home and all the expence is mine so I need to buy blue guns a few at a time.

Rick J.

[mattsh]

Rick,

There is another alternative to the blue guns. There are two companies I know of that do aluminum molds as training aids. The guns are dimensionally correct and are nearly indestructable.

Do a Google search for Duncan Customs in Michigan and Lindell Aluminum Training in Kansas City, MO.

[Snakebyte]

If you need blue guns, I am a dealer. Also for asp red guns.

You can reach me here:

crash_man_86@hotmail.com

-or- PM me

[rickybobby]

Rick,

There is another alternative to the blue guns. There are two companies I know of that do aluminum molds as training aids. The guns are dimensionally correct and are nearly indestructable.

Do a Google search for Duncan Customs in Michigan and Lindell Aluminum Training in Kansas City, MO.

Thanks for the information. I looked into these, the website for Duncan did not give prices and Lindell did not appear to have the guns on their site. I also have read on another forum that duncan molds were not very good, I have seen pictures and they did not appear to have as good of detail as the Lindell molds.

Rick J.

[Srigs]

Here is the best place I have found for blue guns.

Blue Guns

I would recommend...

J-frame

Ruger SP101 and LCP

Kahr

Kel-tec PF9, P3xx

Glock 26, 19, 17, 20/21, 30 and 36

XD 3 and 4"

1911 3, 4, 4.25, 5

M&P full size and compact

Sigs 229, 239 and 230/2

Hope this helps.

[WaG35]

http://www.theshootersbox.com/store/

This is where I get mine. I have ordered 3 from them so far and have nothing bad to say. Shipping is pretty fast too. I am going to buy a couple more soon also. At least for me I go buy what people in my dept. use for off duty and detective stuff. Glock and Sig are pretty popular as well as some of the xd's.

[rickybobby]

Here is the best place I have found for blue guns.

Blue Guns

I would recommend...

J-frame

Ruger SP101 and LCP

Kahr

Kel-tec PF9, P3xx

Glock 26, 19, 17, 20/21, 30 and 36

XD 3 and 4"

1911 3, 4, 4.25, 5

M&P full size and compact

Sigs 229, 239 and 230/2

Hope this helps.

Eric,

Thanks for the list. This information will help me get a few that are most usable first. Right now most customers will leave their gun with me for a day or I borrow one from the gunshop down the street, (the owner is a friend) but blueguns are the most professional and hold the least liability (for loss or damage).

I like your website, it is informative, easy to navigate, and it is very clear what your product look like and a good discription without being overcrowded. The products look great!

Rick Jorgenson