Is This What Bridle Leather Is Supposed To Look Like?

[MonicaJacobson]

Hey all,

I just bought some Hermann Oak London Tan bridle leather. I was rather disappointed with it when it arrived, and I thought perhaps my assumptions about bridle leather might be completely off.

I'm going to describe my side, and I'd really appreciate it if you could tell me if my side has a problem, or if my expectations have a problem.

I found it to be stiff and dry feeling, with a glazed lacquery coating. There were wrinkles all over it, part from the shipping. There are 1 1/2 ft. darkened scratches in two places. It has other random scratches all over it, some dirty spots, and even a few tiny black spots. I couldn't find a clean place to lay out what I wanted to cut out.

Are my expectations too high? I just finished using a beautiful piece of Horween Dublin from Springfield, and my judgment might be clouded. This cost exactly the same price.... so...

Are scratches par for the course with bridle leather? Does my customer just assume that goes with the name?

Edited November 7, 2014 by MonicaJacobson

[George3]

Hi Monica,

I've been buying sides from Wickitt and Craig, "Show Harness" and have been happy with it, even thief lowest grade comes in nice.

I've bought the middle grade and the bottom grade.

Talk with Mat or Glen they were most helpful

The sides were waxy, oiled well and smooth.

Hope this helps...

George

[MonicaJacobson]

Thank you George. So you don't have an expectation of scratches or wrinkles on normal Bridle Leather?

About W&C bridle leather, how does it do with scratches? Do they rub out? Honestly, I have no idea how bridle leather behaves or wears.

Thanks a lot,

Monica

[George3]

Monica,

I was making a trap today and it had a long scratch, I used a little saddle soap and rubbed it out with a wood burnished, it disappeared.

Short answer...yes.

[MonicaJacobson]

Thanks George, I appreciate it. I think I'll try Wicket & Craig for the next hide, for sure.

As for my hide, I just looked at a lot of semi-expensive bags (http://www.jpmarcellino.com/buckle-cases/major-john-fremont-125-natural.html), and it appears that several of their English Bridle briefcases have marks and wrinkles all over them, and they don't seem to be embarrassed. I was probably being a bit over particular.

[Redochre]

I can't believe the price on that bag!

[MonicaJacobson]

I guess it depends on their costs; if they buy their HO bridle leather from Weaver, it costs 16.00 a foot, roughly. And yes, maybe a few corners were cut, but overall, they look pretty good. What would you charge for something comparable?

This is selling for $600 (or anyway, it's "for sale" for $600, and it's much more simplistic).... http://www.etwasbags.com/collection/standard-no1/

Edited November 8, 2014 by MonicaJacobson

[DavidL]

I haven't bought any expensive leather like bridle leather, this could be the standard seeing as full grain shows all marks. The hide looks to have a lot of cracks especially the third picture. If this was C grade I would be happy with it, B It seems on par, for A grade then I would try WC or from italy, france or germany. Best thing to do is to cut around the marks, cut less important pieces using the marks or use them for distressed pieces.

Even leathers obtained by high end designers has a person dedicated to outline marks and blemishes regardless of the high grade of leather, things they look for also include overall colour. I vaguely remember hearing hermes using 40 percent of certain leathers and burning the wasted leathers (or it may have been unsold goods of either Louis vuitton, Gucci or Hermes that they burned)

Vachetta is the only full grain I know that is nearly completely blemish free because of the environment they live in, something to do with high altitude, no mosquitos or barbwire fences. Anyone reading this that knows of tanneries that do things to ensure the cattle are fed properly, live in a controlled environment and has a good tanning process I would appreciate any leads.

[MonicaJacobson]

The wrinkles I could deal with - it's the scratches, scuffs, and black spots that I was bummed about. It's possible that I'm judging it with the wrong criteria, but I figured it seems right to judge it by unfinished veg tanned standards. I wouldn't buy a piece of veg tanned from Tandy that's all scratched up and has black spots that won't come off, so....

But yes, it probably is Grade C. Up until now, I've always bought what is probably grade C, but since I picked it by hand, I avoided the worst of it. I think this was just an undiscerning grade C, as opposed to a carefully chosen grade C. I guess it's the price you pay for buying online, sometimes. Overall, my online buying experience (though limited) has been very good.

[J Hayes]

Have you talked with the supplier? Most will take back a hide that doesn't meet your standards. Its a pain but a product you cannot use is a bigger pain.

[DavidL]

Thats a good way to look at it, it would be nice if they took a picture of every hide so the experience would be the same as in store. When you are buying something like 20 hides of A grade then it would be easier to work around the imperfections.

Briefcases or messenger bags can go upwards of 3k. Those looking for a good sturdy bag without an unattainable price tag will look for one at a more affordable price of 700 for something that they would consider a premium product rather than luxury with a lot of similar values a luxury brand has. From my mind set something that is 700 is within reason for an item that will 1. last more than 5 years and 2. be well made and have more value as it gets older like an old pair of shoes.

[MonicaJacobson]

J Hayes - Yes, they're glad to take it back. They're very pleasant and helpful - my post was my agony of indecision about whether to be out of pocket $30.00 sending it back with nothing to show for it, or try to sell two or three "distressed" leather bags. Or if it was supposed to be like that, and I should suck it up and use what I bought. But I'm definitely sending it back. Like you say, better some annoyance repacking it than two months of annoyance trying to do something with it. It's also too stiff for my liking. I guess this was a good way to learn that I might like Western Bridle or Show Harness better than English bridle. I'm going to talk to someone at W & C on Monday and find out if those two alternatives might fit what I need better.

David, I agree - in theory. I got into leatherworking because I couldn't afford good leather products, and because fake leather products are very expensive for how badly they wear.

[chiefjason]

I work with bridle a lot. It's generally oiled, waxed, and pressed. So it's shinier to begin with on the finished side, and sometimes the pressed side looks as good as the grain side. I would not consider mine stiff or dry though. Could the stiffness come from the weight of the leather? Also, if it's pressed (smooth) on the back that might firm up the side a bit.

Here is what I see. Pic 1 and 2 look like range marks. Cows have a rough life. Anyone that wants real leather and no blemishes is going to have a hard time finding it or pay dearly for it. Pic 3 looks like a soft/thin spot in the leather. If I'm assuming correctly the edge in the pic is the belly edge. Belly leather is soft, and either comes pre wrinkled or wrinkles easily. It's mostly waste. Pic 4 looks kind of like fat wrinkles or stretch marks in the hide.

Not saying you have to be happy with it. To be honest, pic 4 looks a bit excessive. I occasionally get sides like that and I don't really care for them. But it does not hurt the finished product I'm making. But if you are unhappy with it talk to the seller.

[MonicaJacobson]

Thanks, it helps a lot to know what other people find to be normal. I agree that it'd be silly to expect perfection, and I usually allow for 4-8 square feet of waste (or at least, places where I cut out straps or pockets because you have to work around scars or wrinkles). If I didn't mind taking sandpaper to the whole thing and purposely distressing it all to match, I would probably keep it. It would even be kind of fun, as I've been wanting to try distressing something. However, I was purposely trying to spend more money to buy better leather that I could charge more money for than an economy Tandy hide. So much for that.

What do you make with bridle leather? I'd love to see some pictures.

[chiefjason]

What do you make with bridle leather? I'd love to see some pictures.

Hybrid holsters. Leather and kydex, nothing fancy. The bridle keeps me from having to dye it and the pressed back looks nicer than the normal flesh side. And the stuff I get is struck through so no touching up the edges either. I deal with black exclusively so that color likely hides what looks like scratches. But I get the wrinkles near the belly and the fat wrinkles. Some are better than others. If I get a bad one that gives me a lot of waste I usually request a cleaner one the next go around.

[MonicaJacobson]

Cool! I saw a few leather/kydex knife sheathes on BritishBlades, and the affect is very nice. Yes, I do think black is great to work with. The one black hide I've used was awesome. Very little waste.

I hate being pushy, but I guess that's the only way to get what you want if you order online - make it clear to the supplier that you really prefer something carefully chosen, not just anything they throw at you. It's a little extra work for them, but at least they don't waste money shipping you something you don't want.

[thefanninator]

I just bought an English Bridle strap and it seems very dry compared to what I thought it would be. Smells funny too, like chemicals. Described as: Drum Dyed, Vegetable Tanned, Smooth Flesh/Grain Side. Not too happy with it but I guess I'll make it work.

Edited November 26, 2014 by thefanninator

[MY63]

Hi Monica

I am fairly new to leatherwork and have only bought one english bridle hide it came from http://www.je-sedgwick.co.uk/category/bridle-leather/ I bought it through Abbey England it had very little in the way of marks and blemishes it had a waxy finish but it is supposed to.

You bags are very good quality

Michael

[MonicaJacobson]

fanninator - I've read that Western Bridle is more like what we were hoping for. More oily, and heavily hot stuffed, as opposed to English Bridle, which is only lightly hot stuffed. I think I read that on Wicket and Craig's brochure I got with their samples. I need to get some latigo samples - that may also be more like what I was hoping for English Bridle. Should have asked Joe - after I bought it, I realized at least one of his totes has an English Bridle pocket, and it looks exactly like what I bought. Glazed and lacquered looking, rather than waxy.


Michael, Thanks! I've heard that actual British English Bridle is more waxy than American English Bridle. I might try some, next time I order from Abbey England. Thanks for the source review!