Start And Stop On Holster Question

[cleanview]

So got the new cowboy 3200 yesterday and got it set up and lots of practicing and it is simple but then again a lot to figure out.

The biggest frustration is the look of the backsticing which brings me to my question.

If I am going to stop at the starting point that is wind up having done a circle. Can I start without any locking of the stitches and when I close the circle just go over the first three stitches and then back up three and have locked them up tight?

And for a beginner how do you know the stitches are right? I mean not going to unravel? If they look good and you cant pull them, is that all I can do?

[Denster]

To answer your question on the stitching. You would not need to lock the stitching at the beginning and at the end would only need to overstitch three or four with no backstitching. If you backstitch in addition you are stuffing a lot of thread into those holes and they will look nasty.

[Red Cent]

Depends on the stress placed on the leather. Especially if you are going to wet form the leather and it is snug. If possible I always tie off if the knot cannot be seen. Most all my holsters get a tiny drop of super glue in the last two or three stitches on the back to lock the stitches.

Look for the places the back stitch will not be seen. Say the buckle end of a belt. If you are doing a pancake holster, you need to backstitch. Customers will not mind if you do it right. The 3200 should be able to perfectly backstitch and the only thing will be double thread that is not really noticeable or unattractive.

What are you backstitching?

[cleanview]

Thanks.

Denster - I gues my logic was on the right trac just had it backwards, thanks

Red cent ---- I have been stitching practice scraps trying to get it down and I have a work belt that has been ready for some time and it will be the first, then a simple cowboy holster (no welt) then a wingman holster. Do you put the superglue on the back side?

I am assuming (thats all i can do with no experience) the best start place is a straight away and in the most hidden spot as well?

If it all goes wrong and the backstitch portion looks horrible on an actual holster, is there any thing that can be done to fix it? I cant imagine there is but I am swimming new water here.

[snubbyfan]

I determine where the most stress'll be placed on the stitches.

On these knife sheaths, I added "ears" to give me a place to end and double back my stitches. On the off side, I doubled my stitches to give it a balanced look.

On this holster, I started and stopped my stitches at the bottom. I started at the bottom, stitched along the inside, stitched the perimeter then back stitched 3 or 4 stitches after I came back around on the bottom.

Both ends of the thread are at the backside, clipped leaving about 1/8" then melted and mashed down.

Fold over knife sheaths and holsters, I'll start at the top and end at the bottom. Back stitching 3 or 4 stitches.

I do all my stitching by hand so I'm not sure how this'll apply to machine stitching.

I don't use any super glue and none of my stitches have ever come loose.

Edited November 13, 2014 by snubbyfan

[cleanview]

Well here is my best attempt

a start and stop with back stiching each end and then a box with back stitching to start wiht then overlapping three stitches to end with.

Ugly is the only word to describe it

[Red Cent]

"...the best start place is a straight away...."
Not necessarily.
This.
".... in the most hidden spot as well?"
I stitch all the belt. All the way around. Some start and stop just before the buckle. I start at the hidden end/buckle end. I backstitch when I start and when I stop.

Yes, the drop of glue is always on the back. Carefully. Too much and you will get a dark spot. And you do not want the glue to go all the way through the hole. Just a little dab will do ya.

[Red Cent]

I believe you need to adjust the tension some. I use 277 top and 207 bottom and the top will pull into the leather. The needle hole seems to be huge compared to the thread. What size needle and thread?

....

[Splash]

I got the 4500, If I go around like sewing a reinforcement piece, I usually overlap my stitching by 3 or 4 stitches. on the pancakes, like on the picture, by the belt loops, I mostly never start and finish on the same place. I start on the bottom of the holster about 5 stitches from when I am turning up aling the first stitch line. That way, I have about 3 or 4 stitched to go over on my second pass (this will lock my begining stitch line. Then at my stopping point, I'll reverse my machine and do 3 or 4 back stitches. does that makes sence?

[cleanview]

Red cent- The machine came set up and I tightened it some and brought it from 5 per inch down to 6 per inch.

Two needle pacs witht he machine marked 277 and 138 . It had 207 thread in it so I am sure the needle is the package markedd 277 which says size 25

Splash - Are you saying you uses the pass over stiches to lock them in?

[Splash]

for the start stitches, yes. I dont glue, I burn the tips at the end. I use 277 in both thread and bobbin

[cleanview]

Well here is progress. Still needs practice. this is the method that splash talked about. If i got it right here is what I did.

Start with out any backstitch.......came around to finish the circle and just stitched over the first three stitches then burned the threads. Seems to have worked but still needs practice. the hardest part is not being able to see the needle as it pierces the leather. My pressor foot (or piece that the needle goes through if I got the name wrong) blocks that view. i saw video of another machine that you could see the needle as it entered the leather and that would sure make it easier to hit the hole.

[JLSleather]

CV..

I like a 24 needle, personally. And if you're stitching a couple layers of 8 oz, I wouldn't go much tighter than 6/inch -- much beyond that and you're weakening the seam, not strengthening it.

[cleanview]

Super cool! I just sewed a cowboy western belt that I am going to use for a daily work belt. The wife walked in and said " your done! You did not even get to watch a movie!" That belt would have been at least a 2 hour movie.

[TwinOaks]

I take a little bit different route than most. Even on pieces that are sewn with my Boss, I "back tack" by hand, and use a saddle stitch. I have had regular backstitching come loose due to very high stress...I guess it's either a statement on just how strong the thread is, or how week the back stitch was. Since I started hand sewing the last few stitches to lock everything down, I've had zero problems, even in similar situations. I always add a half stitch so that the threads end up on the back of the piece, and just heat the thread nubs with a lighter and mash them down into the other threads.

[cleanview]

I want to be clear I understand (be patient with me)

1. More than 6 stitches per inch is a problem?

2. The machine can pull the stitches into the leather I mean tension compared to hand stitching.

3. The information end of this machine is limited to what you can find on youtube. that has been a discouragement to say the least. the pictures in the worthless manual have no detail at all. I was sure I tightened the tension until I watched another video that made me think I tightened the wrong thing.

4. It seems like I should be able to get the bobbin thread to draw in a little more. My mind says that takes place adjusting the tension. The manual says don't. So I did just a little.

5. I have yet to see an answer if there is a way to "fix" mistakes that I will inevitably make with the machine.

I know this a all the same forum but the interaction is better in the holster part. Hope you dont mind my machine questions

[JLSleather]

Stitching makes a tear in the leather. Put enough small tears, close enough together, and you have a slice. So, there's some debate about the number of times you can do this without a problem. Simple terms, larger needle makes a larger slice, so the same spacing causes a tear sooner due to the larger diameter of the needle. 10 per inch with a 16 needle is fine. 10 per inch with a 25 needle doesn't leave much material left between the "stitches" (filling the hole with thread doesn't equal the same thing).

A word about the machine suppliers around here. They are exactly that.. SUPPLIERS. They do not make the machines, and know enough about the machines to SELL them. What is the BRAND of your machine? Who is the MANUFACTURER?

[malabar]

Cleanview,

Pretty much ANY Question you have about that machine can be answered here or in the Leather Sewing Machine forum. These folks use these machines every day and know them inside and out.

As you can gather from the comments, there are a bunch of ways of dealing with the same issues. Find what works for you. One bit of advice: It's really important to get the correct combination of needle size and thread size for the type and thickness of leather that you're sewing. As Denster said, stuffing too much thread into a hole will create problems. If you have issues with the bottom of your stitches and you can't cure it with technique, try moving to a larger needle.

tk

[Splash]

I want to be clear I understand (be patient with me)

1. More than 6 stitches per inch is a problem?

2. The machine can pull the stitches into the leather I mean tension compared to hand stitching.

3. The information end of this machine is limited to what you can find on youtube. that has been a discouragement to say the least. the pictures in the worthless manual have no detail at all. I was sure I tightened the tension until I watched another video that made me think I tightened the wrong thing.

4. It seems like I should be able to get the bobbin thread to draw in a little more. My mind says that takes place adjusting the tension. The manual says don't. So I did just a little.

5. I have yet to see an answer if there is a way to "fix" mistakes that I will inevitably make with the machine.

I know this a all the same forum but the interaction is better in the holster part. Hope you dont mind my machine questions

1. Yes; JLS could not explain it any better

2. yes/no. the bobbin thread gets pulled into the leather by the top thread, when the correct tension is apply to both, they both meet in the middle. see pic.

3. See JLS comment

4. Yes, see pic

[Red Cent]

Your stitches depict a reverse twist point needle. I use the S needle - narrow cross point. Here is a site that is really informative about needles.

http://www.schmetzneedles.com/learning/pdf/leather-needles.pdf

[Splash]

+1 on Reds point. Was looking for something like that....

[cleanview]

My machine is a cowboy 3200

I am pretty sure my needles are s needles but will have to check.

Very informative, you guys are great.

[SteelcityK9Cop]

The 3200 uses many of the same parts and operates much like the 4500 so..... You can call Cowboy Bob and order an "Open Center Foot" that would allow you to see the needle strike the leather. There are also some great videos that can help you. Here are my two favorites....

Basic Skill Developing....

And the basic 441 video... It's not the 3200 but there is some great info in there!

[cleanview]

I have watched those several times. they have been very helpful.

[cleanview]

So here is my first mistake.

During a turn I skipped a stitch. I understand why it happened but is there a way to fix it?

Can I pull thread and re sew? Seems impossible to me but I don't know