Verlane Desgrange Tutorials

[TwinOaks]

I just mentioned this to the moderating team, and received word that there is some ongoing dispute/conversation about some of Verlane's intellectual property and intentions for it. The MOD team is looking into it, so until then, I'll ask everyone to wait for that decision, and not shamelessly copy the content of that website.

[Vikti]

Thanks for the link, lots of stuff for me to study.

Looking through some of the files of tools and my wife said "no, you can't have all that" so I now have my shopping list together

Damon

[tonyc1]

I just mentioned this to the moderating team, and received word that there is some ongoing dispute/conversation about some of Verlane's intellectual property and intentions for it. The MOD team is looking into it, so until then, I'll ask everyone to wait for that decision, and not shamelessly copy the content of that website.

Too late!

[bruce johnson]

The issue is not what you do with material on someone else's website. I can assure you there is also a discussion starting about posting it as a direct referral on the forum page, but no dispute. The issue as I see it is making it an official referral from this forum by listing it on the home page, rather than a referral from an individual member as it is now. This material was not exclusively given to anyone as I understand it, IILG has it, DeeAnna hosted it for Verlane, and I am sure Verlane shared the master files with others as well. She sure sent me a bunch if not all of it. There was talk and speculation at one point on other forums about this material being published and the proceeds used to fund scholarships or charities. It may or may not ever come to be. There is a lot of speculation and no real clear answers, we know Verlane shared it freely, but things may have changed or will change in the meantime. The potential copyright implications to a group who runs on donations, sometimes in the red, and has no reserves is something that we need to consider before going with something that might be construed as "official". I don't see that same issue with a a member referring to it and sure don't want to discourage anyone from visiting this site based on the individual referral. It has only been 4 hours since this suggestion was brought up, and not everyone has had much of a chance to weigh in yet. In the meantime it is on the open internet, great info, and I would encourage anyone to utilize it.

[MADMAX22]

The issue is not what you do with material on someone else's website. I can assure you there is also a discussion starting about posting it as a direct referral on the forum page, but no dispute. The issue as I see it is making it an official referral from this forum by listing it on the home page, rather than a referral from an individual member as it is now. This material was not exclusively given to anyone as I understand it, IILG has it, DeeAnna hosted it for Verlane, and I am sure Verlane shared the master files with others as well. She sure sent me a bunch if not all of it. There was talk and speculation at one point on other forums about this material being published and the proceeds used to fund scholarships or charities. It may or may not ever come to be. There is a lot of speculation and no real clear answers, we know Verlane shared it freely, but things may have changed or will change in the meantime. The potential copyright implications to a group who runs on donations, sometimes in the red, and has no reserves is something that we need to consider before going with something that might be construed as "official". I don't see that same issue with a a member referring to it and sure don't want to discourage anyone from visiting this site based on the individual referral. It has only been 4 hours since this suggestion was brought up, and not everyone has had much of a chance to weigh in yet. In the meantime it is on the open internet, great info, and I would encourage anyone to utilize it.

Not that I disagree with you and I can see why you guys are hesitant but ..... I dont see why when it was free before that now some nonprofit groups should be able to claim rights to it so they can make a buck even if it is for a good cause. I think most of the people that start out in leather arent rich (money wise) and need all the help they can get in learning the trade and having some downloads that they arent having to pay for it kind of nice. If a group is running off donations then they shouldnt be copyrighting something so they can get money for it hence running off donations and not selling stuff.

Thats just my opinion, I see it as she wanted it to be free so it should be.

[trastu]

thank you very much, the site is very interesting. health

[Johanna]

Here's the deal: Verlane was a friend to me, like many of you, and I am not going to do anything disrespectful to her memory. She sent me a CD of this info before she died, but she was very vague about what she wanted me to do with it. She probably wasn't sure herself, and just wanted to know the material she had painstakingly put together wasn't lost. If her sister says, "Yes Johanna, please share that info with LW members!" I will be thrilled to do so. If her sister says, "We are going to publish that material and fund a scholarship in her name." then I'll be promoting the book, not undermining the family's efforts. This isn't a matter of legalities to me as much as courtesy and ethics. So, until I have the final word from Verlane's sister, I will not be uploading the CD to LW. Yes, you can see some of the material on DeeAnna's site and in the members-only section of the IILG, and I don't know whether or not they have permission to do so or not, but I won't be proceeding until I know her family's wishes. I realize it is valuable information, but you all can understand why it is so important for LW to do the right thing. Verlane entrusted me with a lot of her work, and I take that responsibility very seriously.

Johanna

[CitizenKate]

If a group is running off donations then they shouldnt be copyrighting something so they can get money for it hence running off donations and not selling stuff.

Thats just my opinion, I see it as she wanted it to be free so it should be.

Madmaxx22, I see your point, but I think you misunderstood what Bruce was saying about "a group running off donations". That group is us, and his point was that, as a non-profit organization with very little funds to operate on, let alone insure ourselves against copyright infringement suites, we cannot take the legal risk of publishing something we may or may not have the right to publish.

Regardless of how freely the information was shared before, the current copyright holders may have different sensibilities about it, and they do have the legal right to make that call.

Who else has it, and what they do with it, is not our concern. We do not know what arrangements they made with the owner of the material, so we are not in any position to question what they are doing at all, only what we should do. Johanna is 100% right to defer to Verlane's family, not only for legal reasons, but also because we respect Verlane and her family.

But meanwhile, (just my opinion) you all are well within your legal rights to enjoy the site as long as it is there to enjoy. Thanks for sharing it with us, Bree.

Kate

[8thsinner]

As soon as you click that link near enough you are given this text.

If you have a Verlane tutorial that you would like to add to this list, please email it to me at coyote@classicbells.com

I would suggest two things because of this.

Johanna, given that at the current standing the information given to you was to help leather workers, And the link posted is set up for the same purpose, You would be adding a personal entry to said site, sharing information which bears no connection to this site.

Given also that regardless of the nature of putting the information onto the main page can be related to possible infringement issues, again I point out that putting a sticky on this thread, or perhaps one similar with numerous links to FREELY accessible tutorials will not cause problems in any legal fashion. You cannot be held legally responsible for opinions and links to other sites which even some time down the line may be legally charged. If you could every one could be charged with some sort of connection to every crime going.

Recently there was a thread with lots of links well organized with leather stuff, perhaps we need to redo that thread or start a Favorite websites page and sticky it.

I could post a dozen excellent tutorial links right now without going through my thousands of book marks, I am sure there are more like me in that respect.

[Johanna]

See under the banner at the top of the page where it says "main page"? Click there for lists of suppliers, artists, tutorials, tips, tricks and other information.

Johanna