New Guy Questions

[stickandtin]

I have a vintage trailer restoration business near Lubbock, TX. I have been farming out the upholstery work. My wife would like to take over those duties. She has nearly 30 years hobby sewing experience, but none of it upholstery work. I searched the site and couldn't find a topic specifically for upholstery, so I figured this one might be a place to start. Most of the upholstery work will involve anything heavy cloth type material to vinyl to leather. I read through wizcraft's posts on different machines for different jobs(fabulous write-ups for new people). From thise write-ups, I am gathering that I will need a machine that offers walking foot, compound feed, reverse, large bobbin and a servo motor.

I began the search for a machine but my head is spinning and my brain is beginning to ooze out of my ears at all the possibilities. Mass confusion has set in. Which machine from which manufacturer is best for what our needs are??? Add to that I am reading that a lot of once reliable name brand manufacturers of industrial sewing machines are sending their manufacturing to CHINA and are now producing inferior quality machines. How disappointing!!

So I need some guidance. What machine should I buy for our business? Should I buy new or used? I don't want a chinese made machine. If I buy used, who should I go to? I checked the Lubbock yellow pages and couldn't find anyone in the area that specifically sold or serviced new or used industrial machines, just household type machines. Because service won't be readily available, I want a machine that will serve our needs with a history of reliabilty. I also want a machine that will exceed, not just meet our needs. Any help will be greatly appreciated......

Thanks!!

[Wizcrafts]

Juki sewing machines are made in Japan, as I believe are Seiko. The most popular current Juki model for upholstery and medium weight leather sewing is the DNU-1541s. They sell for around $1600 - $1800. You probably won't find much that's any better at that price point. Check with our advertiser-dealers first before you buy from parts unknown. Dealer support can be the difference between a day or so, versus a week or more, of downtime when something goes wrong.

[Tejas]

Here is a link to an upholstery forum.

http://www.upholster.com/upholstery-forum/

I have a Juki 1508 and concur with Wiscrafts recommendation of a 1541S. The S model is about $100 more than the 1541 model and has a safety clutch.

My dealer is Greg at Keysew -- www.keysew.com -- who is active here and on the upholstery forum.

[stickandtin]

Wizcrafts and Tejas, thanks for the replies. Is the Juki 1541S a new machine? If I was lookkng for a used or refurbished older machine what would be your brand and model recommendations? Thanks and Merry Christmas.

One other question, on the juki 1541S, does that have a servo motor or clutch motor? Thanks

[SARK9]

A couple of the more widely used/popular models you will encounter are the Juki LU-563 and the Consew 206RB thru 206RB3, some models of RB4. These are of Japanese manufacture and have excellent reputations and plentiful, relatively inexpensive accessories and spares. The Juki has the slightly larger *U* class bobbins, but the Consew's *M* bobbins are nice and large as well. The Juki is a vertical axis hook/bobbin machine and requires you to hold the thread tails for the first couple of stitches, while the Consew is a horizontal axis using a conventional bobbin case and is less fussy. Both machines have their fans; I have both and like things about each. Be sure to look carefully at any Juki 563's- Some subclasses lack reverse, and some adverts tend to gloss right over that.

Pfaff and Adler (Germany) make several models of excellent machines with similar capabilities which are slightly handicapped by the usually higher price and scarcity of many common accessories. There is a Juki LU-563 listed on CL in your area, a bit high priced for my taste, but you are a heck of long way from anywhere LOL. I'm originally from the "Permian Basin" myself.

-DC

Edited December 24, 2014 by SARK9

[stickandtin]

Howdy DC, fellow Texan. Thanks for the machine advice. Yes Lubbock(also called dirt city) is a long way from anything. Kind of like being on Gilligan's Island LOL. I have read that the older German made Adler and Pfaff machines are excellent quality but hard to find attachments for. I have also read replacement parts are now made in China. I think I saw the Juki 563 ad you are referring to on amarillo CL. I emailed the seller and asked for maintenance records and features on the machine.....no reply as per usual with a lot of sellers on CL. Tejas, I looked at Keysew website. They are selling a juki 1541s for $1610 and free shipping. Ad didn't say if machine had reverse. I'll call and get more details after Christmas.

[Wizcrafts]

All DNU-1541 machines have a reverse palm lever under the stitch length dial. This model is in current production and is a high quality machine. The old LU-563 is ancient by today's Juki standards. The 1541 has a double capacity bobbin. The only Juki that outperforms it is the LU-1508N or NH. They sell for about $2,200, plus or minus, with a servo motor installed. An upholstery shop with skilled sewers might prefer a clutch motor with a large pulley, for constant high speed operation, where time is money. This would save about $50 off the price of an assembled machine and table. I would recommend the servo, especially the Family Sew 550s. It is easily controllable from about 1.5 stitches per second, up to maybe 25 per second. All depends on the diameter of the motor pulley.

[Constabulary]

I think most of the modern machines have reverse if not all. You should note the reverse lever.

You will probably never get an maintenance records for older sewing machines - I have never seen one except a small sticker of the last dealer that worked on it or sold it.

Juki 563 is for sure an excellent machine but it depends - you never know where and for what these machines were used. But I personally never failed with used sewing machines. I have restored all machines I have in use and I`m not a mechanic and they all work absolutely smooth (as long as you use them for what they were made for oil them and keep them clean). My oldest is from 1932 and the newest from 1967. These older machines are built like tanks and they will probably live for a few more decades.

I´d consider what kind of work you have, how thick you will sew and how long you need the stitch length.

If you know fore sure (really for sure) you will not go over 9mm and don't need stitches longer than 5mm (5 per inch) then an older used machine could save you a lot of money. These are the standard specs on most older Singer 111w type sewing machines with walking foot - a few may sew a bit thicker and have a bit longer stitches but thats pretty much the standard. But when you know you will sew thicker than 9mm and need longer stitches you probably have to look for a newer model like the Juki Wiz recommended.

I think the new machines will have a Servo motor. I personally would not like to use a clutch motor again. I´m glad mine are gone!

If the Juki 563 has a clutch I´d replace it anyway. I´d look for an instruction manual online and check the specs of the machine. But I´m sure it will be a good purchase if it is full functional - how much is the seller asking for it?

- My 2 cents -

[Tejas]

Here is a very readable copy of the Juki 562/563 user guide. Most other online copies seem not that readable. The difference between the 562 and the 563 is primarily the bobbin size -- the 563 bobbin is larger.

http://keysew.com/Webpages/DemoImages/Juki_LU-563_Instruction_Keyfooter.pdf

[Wizcrafts]

The Juki LU-563 (and small bobbin 562) were designed and built using 1980's technology. Things have changed markedly since then. Even the feed dog system is different on new Juki machines (rectangular drive). Adjustments are easier to make and return to. The hooks are much higher quality. Reversing actually sews into the same holes on newer Juki, compared to the 563s that I owned, and forever had to adjust.

But, if you can find a later edition of the LU-563, that has not been abused and was properly setup and adjusted, it would make a good starter machine for an upholstery shop.

Older walking foot machines with reverse levers tended to float their stitch length at higher operating speeds, limiting their usefulness to about 25 stitches per second, maximum. Newer machines have conquered this and will allow one to sew longer stitches at 2500 stitches per minute, or about 41 stitches per second. At these speeds, long runs on boat covers, awnings, tents, banners, couch covers, etc, can be done more quickly. In professional upholstery, time is money.

While upholsters (especially cloth only) prefer to sew at very high speeds, leather crafters cannot do so. Any leather other than genuine upholstery hides tends to heat up the needle and burn the thread at any rate faster than about 10 stitches per second. When I sew long cloth or vinyl jobs at work, I turn the speed dial on the FS-550 to maximum and floor the foot pedal. My edge guide takes care of keeping the lines straight.

[SARK9]

Stick, I think if had the funds available for a new business venture and enough volume of work to get out, I wouldn't hesitate to jump on a Juki 1508. Personally, I get the short run stuff I do handled easily by some of my old outdated machines like this one:

Poor old thing. LOL!

-DC

[stickandtin]

Thanks to everyone for sharing all your knowledge. What a great site!! My wife was off today so we went to a starbucks and spent some time on the internet looking at pics and reading specs on different machines. Since our vintage trailer resto business is a mom/pop operation, speed isn't a critical issue......at least not like I would imagine it would be in a bigger commercial operation numerous people. Turn around time on a trailer restoration tends to take a while, so there is some leeway. My wife watched a couple of videos of machines running with both clutch and servo motors. At her upholstery experience level and the lack of necessity for speed, she said she definitley doesn't need or want a clutch motor.

I definitely want to get a machine that exceeds our needs, not just meet them. Sounds like the 1541S will fit the bill. I will spend some time shopping around for the best package deal on one. Any recommendations of where to look would be greatly appreciated. I have already checked with keysew.com . Thanks again to everyone who took time out on Christmas Eve day to answer a new guy's questions. Merry Christmas.

[Tejas]

For me, part of the best deal was a dealer who assembled, adjusted and sewed off the machine before shipping, and after shipping provides phone and email support. Apparently some dealers drop ship machines. The buyer assembles, adjusts the machine, and must find service elsewhere.

[stickandtin]

Hope everyone had a great Christmas with their families/friends. Have another question. I found through reading posts that Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines is a great source. Tejas told me about Keysew.com. I can't seem to find anyone around my area that sells/services industrial sewing machines. Did an internet search including albuquerque NM and only thing that comes up is home sewing machine dealers. Can anyone give me some other names of reputable industrial machine dealers that provide great service after the sale? Thanks.

[Constabulary]

Maybe Leather Machine Co. Not close to you but they are at least in the south of the US and they have a very good reputation too. Cobrasteve is also a member here.

www.leathermachineco.com

[Wizcrafts]

Stickandtin;

Look at the banner ads on the top of every page on LWN. There are quite a lot that are leading to industrial sewing machine dealers who support the forums through advertising. All of them are reputable and very knowledgeable dealers. Click through and see what each has to offer for the types of sewing you want to do.

All of our member-dealers ship at a reasonable price. Most can be reached on the phone, during their business hours.

Edited December 26, 2014 by Wizcrafts

[stickandtin]

Thanks for the advice. Looked at the banner ads and checked out the Cobra site. Does anyone know where the cobra machines are made? Is the series 18 comparable to the juki 1541 or 1508? Thanks

[SARK9]

The Cobra 18 *looks* like a hybrid spawn of the Mitsubishi LU2-410, the Juki 241H-7, and the Nakajima 280-L. The claim to sew 7/16ths is sort of impressive. I'd bet $5 its made in China, but I've been wrong before.

-DC

[stickandtin]

I wanted to thank everone for their generous help and guidance in making recommendations for a machine for our restoration business. I ordered a new Juki 1541S from Toledo Industrial Sewing. Bob and Bobby were awesome to deal with and answered all questions. I feel confident we will get excellent customer care from them after our purchase.

[stickandtin]

Hello Everyone- after anxiously awaiting delivery of our new juki 1541S, it arrived yesterday at my wife's work. Went to pick it up today and got it home. Wasn't expecting it to weigh 275 lbs LOL

I would recommend dealing with Bob and Bobby Kovar at Toledo Industrial if you are in the market for a sewing machine. They were super helpful. The freight company and people at the loading dock where my wife works are another story. The table was damaged during shipping. One edge was gouged up pretty good and the top had a 7 inch long deep gouge in it. On top of that, the dock worker did not alert the driver of the visible damage when he unloaded it. Toledo Industrial had the machine insured, but because dock worker didn't alert freight truck driver, we can't claim damage.

FYI....make sure and check any shipment for visible damage and alert delivery driver immediately. They will note on bill of

Lading so you can put in an insurance claim. Once delivery person leaves, you out of luck.

[Cobra Steve]

Constabulary,thanks good buddy!