What Should I Charge?

[Calvus]

I've been given my first commission! Well, not officially, since I haven't given my friend the price yet, which is why I've come to you experts.

You may have seen the belt I recently made for my wife.

Well, a friend of mine wants me to make her one as well, with some slight changes. I'm fine with that, seeing as how they are minor. My issue is what should I charge her. She's willing to pay, but I want to be fair about it. My problem is that I don't have most of the materials required. (I'm only a hobbyist.)

All materials combined comes to $77.30, which includes shipping. I really need a larger buttonhole punch to make this work better, but I'm not charging for that since she isn't receiving the tool. My time is worth something, at least to me, but I can't remember how long it took me to make the original belt. This commissioned belt will include sewing (by hand), which will increase time significantly.

I'm thinking of charging a flat $100. What do you think? What would you charge for something like this?

[leatherwytch]

I charge $25-30 per hour, then price of goods plus 40% markup. It is okay to make money off of family and friends. Remember this was custom and custom is 3-4 times higher than buying off the rack.

[Tramps Leatherworking]

I charge $25-30 per hour, then price of goods plus 40% markup. It is okay to make money off of family and friends. Remember this was custom and custom is 3-4 times higher than buying off the rack.

Yeah, what she said...

[NVLeatherWorx]

Did I read that correctly? Materials cost is $77.30? That seems a bit high for that one belt. If you need to order materials for this belt you should only charge your client/customer for the materials used and not everything you order. Any material left over now becomes your remaining inventory for other projects to make money with.

I too charge between $25 and $30 per hour and I have an entire formula setup to calculate the rest of the things that need to factored into the overall pricing process. As a hobbyist you still deserve to make something on everything that you make and sell to others, regardless of who they are. And you are correct that you shouldn't charge the client for a tool that you purchase for this specific item, but you should account for the overall cost of it and then spread the cost out over EVERYTHING that you make. Pricing can get quite detailed and very in depth but for your purpose at this point you don't need to go that far. If things get going and you start getting requests for more then you need to change it up and find a pricing model that is more along the lines of a full-scale business style.

How did you come to your materials cost? Just kind of curious because I don't see where that number came from based on the image of the belt. Which, by the way, is quite nicely done.

[Calvus]

I charge $25-30 per hour, then price of goods plus 40% markup. It is okay to make money off of family and friends. Remember this was custom and custom is 3-4 times higher than buying off the rack.

Yeah, what she said...

Thanks! My only problem is not knowing how many hours it will take. Guess I could always guesstimate.

[Calvus]

Did I read that correctly? Materials cost is $77.30? That seems a bit high for that one belt. If you need to order materials for this belt you should only charge your client/customer for the materials used and not everything you order. Any material left over now becomes your remaining inventory for other projects to make money with.

I too charge between $25 and $30 per hour and I have an entire formula setup to calculate the rest of the things that need to factored into the overall pricing process. As a hobbyist you still deserve to make something on everything that you make and sell to others, regardless of who they are. And you are correct that you shouldn't charge the client for a tool that you purchase for this specific item, but you should account for the overall cost of it and then spread the cost out over EVERYTHING that you make. Pricing can get quite detailed and very in depth but for your purpose at this point you don't need to go that far. If things get going and you start getting requests for more then you need to change it up and find a pricing model that is more along the lines of a full-scale business style.

How did you come to your materials cost? Just kind of curious because I don't see where that number came from based on the image of the belt. Which, by the way, is quite nicely done.

First paragraph - So are you saying that even though dye would run me $7 for the whole bottle, but I'll only use half of it, that I should only charge $3.50?

Last paragraph - Here is the break down on material.

Store 1:

Elastic - $5

$6 shipping

Store 2:

Button stud - $2

Dye - $7

Button stud punch (I'm not charging for this, but it is being shipping with the above two items. Shipping is flat rate.)

$13 shipping

Store 3:

Leather - $30

$6 shipping

Store 4:

Thread - $6

$2.30 shipping

Grand total: $77.30

Now I'll explain why 4 online stores are being used, because that's probably what you're thinking. Store 1 has the width and style of elastic that I need. Besides that, I've never seen a leather store carry elastic. Store 2 and 3 might be able to be combined, resulting in less shipping. I was having trouble finding the exact dye and button stud at store 3 though. I could buy my leather from store 2, but I would have to buy a side/shoulder/whatever. At this point I'm not able to afford such a large piece. Store 3 has a 12"x24" piece which is perfect, leaving very little waste. Store 4 has my thread, which I'm picky about.

Hopefully this isn't clear as mud!

Edited January 20, 2015 by Calvus

[NVLeatherWorx]

Well, a third of your total is shipping alone so that doesn't help. Not knowing what stores you have in close proximity, could you have found any of these items at a store that you could physically visit? That would cut out some of that shipping, and maybe even less for a specific item. If you do plan on making other projects then any dyes, materials, etc. that you have left over can actually go to that so, from a business perspective, you only charge for what you use on any specific project. If you don't plan on doing anything else for any period of time then I guess you can try and get your money back for what you have invested.

Now on your original post about your time being worth something. In your case, you will only be giving yourself about $23 for your time. I have seen similar belts (not that style but some unique designer styles) which are called handmade but we all know are really machine sewn within a couple of minutes, that sell for $400 and upwards. If you are willing to accept the $23 to compensate yourself then that is what you agree to do. Not knowing if you ever plan on taking this to the next level (i.e. a business concept), I would recommend that you at least keep track of your actual hands-on labor time and charge $10 per hour as a minimum. If you do decide to go to a business model then you will need to reevaluate that of course and charge appropriately. I would also recommend that if you do go more towards a business model that you look at establishing wholesale pricing with your suppliers so that you are saving some big time money. I say this because from what I can calculate from the picture of the first belt, my materials cost (for everything) would be right about $20 (give or take a buck or two).

I personally would charge no less than $200 for that belt shown just because it is unique, handmade, and custom and that all makes it worth much more than some off the rack version from any branded designer or other source. More realistically, that belt would most likely be listed in my shop around the $300 mark but the pricing game is one we all struggle with and constantly reevaluate when our costs change.

If you get anymore requests for these things (and I can see that you easily could) then you might find yourself looking at how you go forward with you supplies purchasing and costing of project materials.

Good luck with this, and I would love to see a picture of the next one.

[leatherwytch]

What I do when I start a job is when I start to do it I record the time. When I take a break, I record the time, When I start again and so on. Then when I am done I add it all up and you will have how long it took you. Say cutting out was an hour, putting it together and dying it another hour. You have two hours.

[Calvus]

What I do when I start a job is when I start to do it I record the time. When I take a break, I record the time, When I start again and so on. Then when I am done I add it all up and you will have how long it took you. Say cutting out was an hour, putting it together and dying it another hour. You have two hours.

I wish I had done that, leatherwytch, but I honestly didn't expect anyone to be interested enough in the belt to actually request one for themselves. I like it, my wife loves it, but I made it, ya know, so I don't see it as good enough. Make sense? I want to say that it took me an hour to cut out (8-9oz leather + several pieces), an hour to burnish, maybe 10-15 minutes to dye, 30 minutes to rivet, and at least 2-3 hours of layout testing/designing/patterning. So you're looking at 4 3/4 - 5 3/4 hrs total.

[snubbyfan]

Don't know if this'll help any but this just went out for $175.

[Calvus]

Well, a third of your total is shipping alone so that doesn't help. Not knowing what stores you have in close proximity, could you have found any of these items at a store that you could physically visit? That would cut out some of that shipping, and maybe even less for a specific item. If you do plan on making other projects then any dyes, materials, etc. that you have left over can actually go to that so, from a business perspective, you only charge for what you use on any specific project. If you don't plan on doing anything else for any period of time then I guess you can try and get your money back for what you have invested.

Now on your original post about your time being worth something. In your case, you will only be giving yourself about $23 for your time. I have seen similar belts (not that style but some unique designer styles) which are called handmade but we all know are really machine sewn within a couple of minutes, that sell for $400 and upwards. If you are willing to accept the $23 to compensate yourself then that is what you agree to do. Not knowing if you ever plan on taking this to the next level (i.e. a business concept), I would recommend that you at least keep track of your actual hands-on labor time and charge $10 per hour as a minimum. If you do decide to go to a business model then you will need to reevaluate that of course and charge appropriately. I would also recommend that if you do go more towards a business model that you look at establishing wholesale pricing with your suppliers so that you are saving some big time money. I say this because from what I can calculate from the picture of the first belt, my materials cost (for everything) would be right about $20 (give or take a buck or two).

I personally would charge no less than $200 for that belt shown just because it is unique, handmade, and custom and that all makes it worth much more than some off the rack version from any branded designer or other source. More realistically, that belt would most likely be listed in my shop around the $300 mark but the pricing game is one we all struggle with and constantly reevaluate when our costs change.

If you get anymore requests for these things (and I can see that you easily could) then you might find yourself looking at how you go forward with you supplies purchasing and costing of project materials.

Good luck with this, and I would love to see a picture of the next one.

You're right, so much shipping cost doesn't help. I think I might be able to combine store 2 and 3. I'll attempt that later this evening. As for local stores, I know of no leather store in my entire state. I know Tandy has no store here, and if there is another leather goods store there isn't one within 2-3 hrs of my location. So you see why I'm ordering online.

As for charging for my time, above I replied to leatherwytch along those same lines. I think it took me around 4 3/4 - 5 3/4 hrs to complete the first belt. 2-3 hrs of that was design, etc... So that part could be knocked off. But this belt will be slightly different. She wanted an elastic wrap around part of the belt, instead of full leather. Not much to redesign there, and I already know how I intend on accomplishing this change. Hand sewing will add some time (I'm thinking an hour worth), so in total it might take me 3.5-4 hrs. So at $10 per hour (funny you mention that amount, I had already thought of charging that for my time) that comes to $35-40 for time and $77 for material, grand total of $112-117. Those numbers look odd to me, so I'd probably just charge $115. This is a pretty close friend, so I'll allow the lower cost. Anyone not as close, or a complete stranger, it probably would be around the $200 mark. I do on the side IT work, so I know all about getting what you're worth.

I really do appreciate everyone's help. Some others have sent PM's as well and I'll keep their suggestions in mind.

Don't know if this'll help any but this just went out for $175.

Thanks snubby, and that belt looks great. Tooling definitely adds time and therefore cost. My Papa made several ranger belts, and one of these days I'll attempt to make one for me!

[NVLeatherWorx]

Calvus, where in this country do you live that Tandy doesn't have a store? I thought that they had this entire land buttoned up (well, that is what THEY think anyway). Your rounding it to $115 for this specific person is probably best so if you are good with it, go with it. The $10 per hour rate that I came up with is actually what a large number of new comers to this craft end up thinking is a great rate. Keep in mind (and I know you are aware of this from the IT side of life), a person like myself and several other craftsmen that have been doing this for awhile have spent many years learning the tricks, techniques and materials as well as spending hours and hours refining our skills and creativity. Therefore, we are not a $10 an hour skilled craftsman, we are more along the lines as a $25 to $30 an hour skilled tradesman (and sometimes even higher) that puts our name and heart into everything we do. I am sure that you charge any IT work out at a rate that reflects your education, training, skill, and quality and I am sure that it is nowhere near $10 an hour.

Good luck my friend, and keep them coming. Always remember this one important thing, if you make something unique and beautiful for anyone that is going to be shown off to others, be prepared to make even more of them and to expect several different wants from everyone who asks for them.

[Calvus]

Calvus, where in this country do you live that Tandy doesn't have a store? I thought that they had this entire land buttoned up (well, that is what THEY think anyway). Your rounding it to $115 for this specific person is probably best so if you are good with it, go with it. The $10 per hour rate that I came up with is actually what a large number of new comers to this craft end up thinking is a great rate. Keep in mind (and I know you are aware of this from the IT side of life), a person like myself and several other craftsmen that have been doing this for awhile have spent many years learning the tricks, techniques and materials as well as spending hours and hours refining our skills and creativity. Therefore, we are not a $10 an hour skilled craftsman, we are more along the lines as a $25 to $30 an hour skilled tradesman (and sometimes even higher) that puts our name and heart into everything we do. I am sure that you charge any IT work out at a rate that reflects your education, training, skill, and quality and I am sure that it is nowhere near $10 an hour.

Good luck my friend, and keep them coming. Always remember this one important thing, if you make something unique and beautiful for anyone that is going to be shown off to others, be prepared to make even more of them and to expect several different wants from everyone who asks for them.

Mississippi :0(

I just did a quick search for the nearest Tandy and it looks like they're all about 4 hours away. And I only wish I could charge my IT rate. Such is life!

Once I've finished this belt (or I should say if they still want it after seeing the price), I'll make a post to show you guys.

[Avgvstvs]

Calvus,

How about telling your good friend all about your work process and costs and ask her what she's willing to pay for it? You might be surprised of her answer.

That way you could prevent the situation in which you ask for a lower price than what she would settle for. If her answer is unreasonable explain to her why it's unreasonable.

[leatherwytch]

As I have been doing this over 40 years. I am entitled to the rates I charge. Which is equal to what I made at my last job, only I enjoy this more. Now for that belt I would probably charge between $250 and $350. I live in Canada and everything is more here. If they want custom they need to pay custom. If you don't respect your work enough to charge the appropriate price then no one will think it is worth it.

Keep up the great work. It is a great belt.

[Eccho]

Quote the price before you make it. No sense in making it, only to have the buyer back out. Many people think that because a "friend's husband" made it, it has no value. We all value our time differently. Some are professionals who make their living at it, some are doing it as a hobby and only want to cover their materials. You do nice work, or your wife's friend wouldn't want the belt. Be honest with her and yourself, you may be pleasantly surprised. Cheers. Eccho

[leatherwytch]

I always take 100% up front on a custom build and i state on my website, no refunds or remakes unless I did it wrong.

Edited January 21, 2015 by leatherwytch

[Calvus]

Calvus,

How about telling your good friend all about your work process and costs and ask her what she's willing to pay for it? You might be surprised of her answer.

That way you could prevent the situation in which you ask for a lower price than what she would settle for. If her answer is unreasonable explain to her why it's unreasonable.

That is a thought, but I'm pretty settled on my price now.

[Calvus]

Quote the price before you make it. No sense in making it, only to have the buyer back out. Many people think that because a "friend's husband" made it, it has no value. We all value our time differently. Some are professionals who make their living at it, some are doing it as a hobby and only want to cover their materials. You do nice work, or your wife's friend wouldn't want the belt. Be honest with her and yourself, you may be pleasantly surprised. Cheers. Eccho

Oh definitely! I don't want to be out of my money and then be told that they no longer want it. My making it depends on her willingness to pay. And thank you for the compliment.

[Calvus]

Well, after my wife told her friend what the price would be, she politely declined. I may make one and put it up on Etsy though. Who knows.

[NVLeatherWorx]

Sorry to hear that she balked at it but that is something that many of us face more often than you would think. Unfortunately, there is a huge number of consumers who think that everything should be priced the same as the "mega-mart" stores and they have no clue what really goes into making the items that we do. If you make one for sale on Etsy then list it at the price that it should be, you deserve to get paid for your work.

Good luck.

[Calvus]

I'll definitely charge more, probably around the $200 mark.

[Tramps Leatherworking]

Friends and family always think they get a huge discount, you either have to accept that, or gracefully decline... When a friend/relative asks how much I will charge them for one of my items I always tell them "More than you are willing to pay." They usually agree...

[leatherwytch]

Should ask her if she would pay that for a Versace, Gucci, or Louis Vutton. Then say, this is ten times better because it is handmade. Not in a factory with children getting paid 5 cents a day.

[NVLeatherWorx]

Tramp: You hit it dead on. Unless I am making something as a gift for a family member, there are no discounts or "freebies".

Leatherwytch: Don't forget to mention that the Versace, Gucci, or Louis Vutton version would also have a price tag of no less than $450 to $500 on it. I do this all of the time when I get an inquiry into making a project that has been "inspired" by one of those big designer names. Once the price is quoted (and it can sometimes be higher than the designer name) I get that deer in the headlights look followed by a comment, "I can get it made cheaper than that by someone else". So, I politely invite them to do so because I am not in the habit of making things that are intended to copy any of those. I also make it very clear that the reason for the price is based on the fact that I know my materials are superior to what they are using and I know what my level of craftsmanship is versus that 5 cents a day kid working in a sweatshop in India or some other country where this is the mass production practice, and that it all comes together to be a much better product. And then I start to work on something else as they pick themselves up off the floor and silently walk away.