What Should I Charge?

[leatherwytch]

This is correct. I had a customer want a very fetish style harness that stars were donning. The set sold designer wise for $3800.00 They wanted me to make the buckles look old. I told them I would not do it identical to that but better. Well my price was $1k. She practically died. I said to her that was inexpensive considering none of the original harness was lined. If she was wearing it over bare flesh at least it wouldn't chafe. She decided she didn't want it and then two years latter wanted it done. I told her the price was now $3k as the price of leather had gone up and it had. No, she didn't get it.

[Calvus]

I do this all of the time when I get an inquiry into making a project that has been "inspired" by one of those big designer names.

It's funny that you mention that. My belt was "inspired" by this belt. My wife wanted it, but didn't want to pay for it. In terms of material, I did. I don't remember what the retail price was, but it was far more than my asking price, so honestly my wife's friend was getting a pretty good deal.

A big thanks to everyone for your input in this. I've learned a lot from what y'all have said here.

[rawcustom]

Love the last few comments. NVleather, Leatherwytch and Tramp excellent advice, and so true. I think any of us craftsman get to deal with what I label Kmart syndrome. So many people focus entirely on price and quantity they don't even consider quality. They have in their mind that if a wallet at Kmart or Walmart costs $25 than that is the set price for any wallet. What's even more hilarious is those who spend more for the name brand product who is having their item made in the sweatshop next to the one producing the generic brand item. Do you honestly think Nike apparel is superior when their investment is 1/10 of 1% in their clothing line? I'm willing to wager that the pay and skill at the Nike sweatshop is not anything improved over the knockoff brand.

The "more than you can afford line" is perfect and will cut out a lot of nonsense. The most common I hear in regard to my knives is "I can buy a knife for $50 in the store" I usually reply something along the lines of "Great, go buy one then, because I don't make $50 knives". It's also a daunting task to educate a consumer, but I've had a few converts. The best customers are self educated and they are the ones who begin to understand quality, labor, and investment. The more they understand, the more reasonable your price becomes. Sorry you lost your potential sale, but you really didn't lose anything. People who don't understand and can't appreciate your work choose their fate of Kmart living. Not the worst thing, and many people live that way, but they will never be the clientele for your custom made goods.

[MonicaJacobson]

I give things to friends and family, sometimes, but I've never sold anything to friends and family. I know they can't afford it, and I know they shouldn't afford it; sometimes people shouldn't pay for luxuries.

If a friend or family member wants a deal, I say, "okay, come make it with me." I'll make them do all the work, and they learn the true value of the product.

It's always hard to turn down a friend, but it's important. Word of mouth gets around, and eventually you're working a lot of hours a week, and usually are out of pocket. And they genuinely think they're doing you a favor.

The fact is, if it's handmade, the average American is not your client base. So don't feel bad for losing their custom, because you were never trying to court that customer base anyway.

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

Calvus, you should charge for design time. When I had my machine shop if we had to design, or engineer a part we definitely charged for that time spent. Look at it this way, they are paying for your knowledge -- that cost you how much to obtain? People are coming to you to design, and make items that they cannot do themselves.

[NVLeatherWorx]

rawcustom: You could not be more spot on than that. That mentality is exactly what we face everyday. Whenever I set my tent up an event or show I always have a fully active work station setup so that people can just stand there and watch. I have had up to 20 people standing by and watch me carve & tool some very detailed stuff and a large number of them would stand there for over 2 hours just to see how everything progressed and eventually came to be what would be the finished product. Hardly ever a question though, yet I almost always would get about 40% of them buying an "on the shelf" item without even questioning the price. I even get some of the local "leather craftsmen" (these guys are at best a 2 hours a week hobby newb) asking me why I do something a certain way and when I explain to them the tried, true, and proven reasons behind it the common response is, "that isn't the way I was taught". Now it is my turn to ask who taught them only to find out that they were taught by someone who has only been working with leather for about 6 months themselves and has not had any formal classes or any real experience in the trade. Unfortunately, I have to tell that newb that they will never get where they want to be if they don't actually get their information from a person who knows what they are doing. Again, the Kmart/Walmart mentality even goes towards how some of these people are learning this trade.

Monica: I like your approach as well. Did that with a friend of mine (who by the way makes custom turned pens and other woodworks himself) who wanted to know why it took so long and costs so much for a Sheridan style belt. I sat him down with a 12" strip of leftover belt strap, the transfer pattern and a stylus, then gave him some quick instruction on how to case the leather, and everything else. We never even got to the tooling portion of the day because he learned real quickly how easy that working with intricate patterns/designs WAS NOT. He now never questions anything when it comes to handmade and he has also started incorporating information as how he goes about making the various things that he does and what goes into the process. Nobody questions his pricing anymore either now that they get a bigger picture of what true craftsmanship is.

BIGGUNDOCTOR: Wouldn't it be real nice if we could truly get paid for our entire level of expertise, experience, and what it has cost us to achieve these things? I am sure that would put a large number of us in the $100+ per hour category for sure. However, you are absolutely correct on ensuring that you get compensated for your design time and that is one thing that I always have to bring to the attention of other crafters (from all types) when they ask me about how I handle that aspect. Even for a knitter there is always a design element when you are fulfilling a custom item. I ask them how long it took them to plan out where to start the custom elements of the design and how long it took them to ensure that it would come out properly; then I ask them if they factored that into their pricing and they always say, "no, that is part of the process." When I explain to them that it may be part of the process but it is still time associated with the overall creation of the finished product and that they need to get reimbursed for it as it now costs THEM to sell the item (and how much it actually impacts that concept) they look lost. I always try to get them to understand that if something requires extra time to put together the overall order/item then they have to charge for it, otherwise their profit takes the hit because they lost that time as a give away.

[DavidL]

This is correct. I had a customer want a very fetish style harness that stars were donning. The set sold designer wise for $3800.00 They wanted me to make the buckles look old. I told them I would not do it identical to that but better. Well my price was $1k. She practically died. I said to her that was inexpensive considering none of the original harness was lined. If she was wearing it over bare flesh at least it wouldn't chafe. She decided she didn't want it and then two years latter wanted it done. I told her the price was now $3k as the price of leather had gone up and it had. No, she didn't get it.

In 2 years leather jumped from 300- 600 dollars to 2600 dollars? Was it rare or am I missing something?

When buying designer or luxury goods a large portion is from advertising and from the brand itself. So If it gets custom made you have to subtract the amount that is added for advertising and the brand name. A 3 thousand dollar bag without the name is really 500-700 dollars for the same custom made bag and 50 dollars for made in china. In most cases the luxury bag is better crafted than one a custom maker can do (professional pattern maker, professional machine operators and skilled craftsman). A designer brand one designer by a designer but made in china wont be as good as the one you can make.

When they get it made they are for the most part buying a replica. It only starts to become better than the original once they actually customize different pockets, zippers and the specifics. If you include them to look at the process and get them to sit down with you for 20 minutes and for you to do a free consultation (choosing leathers, threads, zippers, asking what they carry in their bags and giving ideas to the type of pockets they want, what they intend to use it for). All this adds to the product and in the end is a better product than the luxury branded one. They can't make a bag specifically for one person.

If someone has the eye for luxury goods and unique leather items they will come to you more likely than the designers because they already owned one of your products and can tell they are a great deal. Let them know you are willing to give a small discount on the first product then the next product they are more willing to pay for a reasonable rate.

Its more of a gamble when they go with a maker vs a company that they are guaranteed to like. The consultation and any actual products can help with this.

[leatherwytch]

The point is I was sick and tired of driving to meet her, which was not a short distance it was out of town and wasting 4 hours each time. Picking this and that and changing her mind constantly. 33 e-mails and 18 phone calls and constant mind changing. Take into the account that I charge $30 an hour. Everyone thinks for all of the above things you donate your time. I knew this person would not be happy no matter what happened. I was done at that point. The hide I would have used was a three hundred dollar hide.

Edited January 24, 2015 by leatherwytch

[Antispin]

I really respect everyone's no-nonsense attitude toward this subject (especially leatherwytch). I myself never understood the raised prices of organic farming until I worked on a pesticide/GMO-free farm and man, was it WORK! Same with leathercraft. The average person hasn't got even the smallest clue as to what goes into true handmade products, which is why NVLeatherWorx's strategy of tooling live at his booth is genius, to really show the time and mastery it takes.

Being agitated at what a layman will offer for a handcrafted leather item is no good because his lack of experience in the field is not his fault. But that doesn't mean you should value your craft any less. Charge what you think it is truly worth and stand behind it confidently. As a second-year business owner, I charge $15/hr plus the cost of materials and a small upcharge for all the tools I invested in, no matter who I'm selling it to (online stranger, close friend, co-worker, family member, etc) because I believe that is what my work is worth at this level of experience. As I become more experienced like some of these members, I will certainly increase my rate.

Edited March 22, 2015 by Antispin