Members cgleathercraft Posted January 27, 2015 Members Report Posted January 27, 2015 I have the opportunity to purchase an American Straight Needle at what I believe to be an excellent price. I have not yet seen it other than in a picture (low quality cell phone picture). I plan to go look at it and potentially pick it up in the next month or so. The machine is not listed for sale but offered to me by a friend of my wife's family who is a saddle maker. This is his backup machine that he hasn't used in quite a while. I have been given the impression that the machine is in working order and know it will have the user/repair manuals coming with it. When I look at it I would like to be able to make an informed decision. What kind of wear should I look for? Including general wear and excessive wear and associated repair cost. Are there any ways to tell if the machine has been run hard or abused. (I expect it hasn't) Where would I locate the model and serial number? If I end up buying the machine where can I purchase parts/accessories/best thread(I've read to not use poly or nylon)? I understand it's and old machine and parts have limited availability. What would be the expected price if the machine is in immediate working order? Working order with a few simple repairs? Simple work required before working order is achieved? I wouldn't as so many questions but I don't want to be stuck with a massive cast iron lawn ornament if its not usable. Quote http://www.cgleathercraft.com Member of the Iron Brigade.
Members cgleathercraft Posted February 10, 2015 Author Members Report Posted February 10, 2015 Anyone? Google can only get me so far! Quote http://www.cgleathercraft.com Member of the Iron Brigade.
Contributing Member TwinOaks Posted February 10, 2015 Contributing Member Report Posted February 10, 2015 That should help out a lot, but I can't make any suggestions about price. For general checking, look for significant wear on any metal to metal parts. Be sure that it turns freely - a little oil might be needed. I'm basing this on my attempts to restore a 1915-18 Champion - mine was completely dry, but a can of good quality oil (gun lube is what I had avail.) got it turning freely. Look inside ofthe machine to see if it has operating rods and if so, check the condition of the rubber bushings. If the machine was at all maintained, they should be fine. Mine sat in a barn for 40+ years unused, so the rubber was sorta dried out. A little oil on them revived them fairly quickly. As far as parts.....Pilgrim Sewing and Cambell-Randall are the only two places I know of - I'm SURE there are others, as the ASN is still used by shoe/boot repair shops. You might also check with cobbler's supply for the thread and thread lube. If it's a large part, you might have to talk to a local machinist and have a part made. The Champion has several cam wheels on the back of the machine that have roller bushings in them...I don't know if the ASN does or not, but if you need the little roller bushings that fit in the cam grooves, you can use drill bit stop collars. Quote Mike DeLoach Esse Quam Videri (Be rather than Seem) "Don't learn the tricks of the trade.....Learn the trade." "Teach what you know......Learn what you don't." LEATHER ARTISAN'S DIGITAL GUILD on Facebook.
Members cgleathercraft Posted February 10, 2015 Author Members Report Posted February 10, 2015 Watched that video about 5 times lol. I've found prices on a few websites though i'm not sure how accurate or up to date those are. Even so, I believe I'm getting a decent price. Gun oil, WD-40, PB Blaster, or about any other oil/solvent is in no short supply around my place. Even have food safe silicone spray tho I only use it on my meat grinder. As stated before this machine resides in a saddle shop as a backup machine so I believe it is in working condition. If not i'm sure its not far from it. I'll get a list of his suppliers for needles/thread/parts when I pick it up (early March). Found a couple sites listing different attachments for different applications. the most interesting was the corner stitch attachment. I'll definitely look into picking one up if possible. If anyone is interested when I get familiar with the machine I can make some videos and post them. Quote http://www.cgleathercraft.com Member of the Iron Brigade.
Members catskin Posted February 12, 2015 Members Report Posted February 12, 2015 I bought one this past summer It wasn't working but only took making one small part to get it going. where I bought it they knew NOTHING about and neither did I but I have sewn leather on other machines for 30 years. Since you are buying from someone who knows the machine you will be miles ahead of where I started. As for wear it has been said they NEVER wear out, mine shows on loose places anywhere. Mine was set up as most are as a sole stitcher but flat plates were available this one might have one on it. If not I made one for mine in about an hour. As for price they can be bought rebuilt from Landis in Montreal for $3500.00 they also stock some parts. Landis also buys these machines and ships them to Montreal to rebuild, so they must still be in demand. Lisa Sorel uses one as do most boot makers as I understand they are much sought after for side seaming boots. There is a vid of Lisa using hers if you google American straight needle. I will be very interested in fallowing your getting and using this machine if you do buy it. And any information you find about it that I missed. Quote
Members Big Sioux Saddlery Posted February 12, 2015 Members Report Posted February 12, 2015 I've seen many sell for about $35. They are basically worthless for any saddle or harness work, but I have one and am not looking for a home for it. There are just a very few odd jobs that I use it for and for what I could get out of it, it might as well sit there and work for me the 3 times a year I use it. It is actually a fun machine to run if it works. I had a lot of trouble with mine when I first got it. That was over 20 years ago. I knew absolutely nothing about stitchers and bought it from a less than honest horse trader type of guy. But I bought some new parts for it and it'll just hum along now. Best of luck to you. Quote
Members catskin Posted February 12, 2015 Members Report Posted February 12, 2015 (edited) They are limited to sewing no more then 4 inches from the edge but do well on straight lines such as traces. Or as I said before they seem to be in demand from boot makers . I am assuming that Big SS above does not have the flat or harness plate and harness feet for his that would explain why he feels it is so limited. I made both for mine and it makes them into a different machine. I used 3/16 by 8 inch plate to make the plate for mine all it takes is drilling 2 holes and making one 1/8 inch slot about 1 inch long. They are sure worth more then $35.00 because Landis international in Montreal pays a lot more then that and ships them in to restore and seem to barely keep up with the demand. So it comes down to what you need it to do, no machine does it all. Edit, The machine in the vid above HAS the flat plate I am talking about the ones set up for sole stitching have just a narrow piece instead. Edited February 12, 2015 by catskin Quote
Members Chayne Posted March 7, 2015 Members Report Posted March 7, 2015 Big Sioux Saddlery if you see one for sale at that price let me know...in fact any under 200. I'm needing parts for mine and saw someone speaking of finding a manual here for them but didn't specif. I've looked everywhere here I can think of and haven't found one yet. I called pilgram and they want 600 for 2 pedals and the stitch adjustment bar.....a little steep for me Quote
Members Big Sioux Saddlery Posted March 7, 2015 Members Report Posted March 7, 2015 Chayne, will do, but these are machines that have sold at auction sales. You have to be there when they're selling. Where are you located? I'm heading to a sale at the end of this month, and they do sometimes have one there. Quote
Members catskin Posted March 7, 2015 Members Report Posted March 7, 2015 (edited) Chayne, I have manuals for A.S.N. I have it saved on my computer, but not sure how to send it to you I could print off a copy and mail it to you. They are available from Landis International in Montreal, That's where mine came from. They have them both in print or to download for about $20.00. If you are interested in one from me send me a pm. Then I can explain why I need to do it by PM Landis also sells used parts not exactly cheap but it is likely worth a look at their web site or even email or phone call.. Edited March 7, 2015 by catskin Quote
Members Chayne Posted March 7, 2015 Members Report Posted March 7, 2015 BSS I'm located in Louisiana and Catskin my email is hossnozzie@yahoo.com...it would be great if you could send me one...Thanks a bunch. Someone said theres one posted here but can't find it Quote
Members catskin Posted March 8, 2015 Members Report Posted March 8, 2015 BSS I'm located in Louisiana and Catskin my email is hossnozzie@yahoo.com...it would be great if you could send me one...Thanks a bunch. Someone said theres one posted here but can't find it Chayne, As I said I am not sure how to send a saved file but I will try. If that fails I could print one and send it for postage plus $3.00 for printer ink. Quote
Northmount Posted March 8, 2015 Report Posted March 8, 2015 Chayne, As I said I am not sure how to send a saved file but I will try. If that fails I could print one and send it for postage plus $3.00 for printer ink. If you are using a windows based PC, right click on the file name in "windows explorer" (not in internet explorer), pick "send to", "mail recipient" and your email client will open and attach the file to the email, ready for you to send it. If you are using some other contraption, someone else will have to help. Tom Quote
Members Chayne Posted March 8, 2015 Members Report Posted March 8, 2015 Ok thanks Catskin! I stumbled across this by accident and then couldnt find it again because they call it an american straight stitch in the video. After extensive searching I found it again so if ya'll have never seen the beautiful it makes he ya go...yes it sucks it only has a 3 inch throat! Quote
Members catskin Posted March 10, 2015 Members Report Posted March 10, 2015 (edited) That is a good example of what they can do, but the one in this vid is set up with for sewing soles on. Put on a flat plate ( you likely have to make it, I made mine in about 1 hour if I can you can ) and you have a whole other machine. Check out Lisa Sorels vid that Twin Oaks posted above, where she is side seaming boots and you will see the flat plate. If you want to see mine I can try to email you a picture. Edited March 10, 2015 by catskin Quote
Members cgleathercraft Posted March 16, 2015 Author Members Report Posted March 16, 2015 (edited) Well I bought the machine over the weekend. It is a little dirty but other than that looks to be in good condition. No major rust anywhere that I could see. All moving parts were free of blemishes and had a slight film of oil. The motor hummed right along and everything turned freely. The lamp had been removed but that isn't an issue for me. The wax pot is there but the heating element is gone. I didn't plan on using it anyway but I may get the heater and get it working just in case. I will be cleaning it up with wd-40 when it shows up at my place. It does have a nice layer of dust since it was the backup machine. Then oiling it up with 3-in-1 oil. (recommended by previous owner). He said anything about the same viscosity would work just fine. I will also be making a flat bed attachment for it but that may come later on. One tidbit of information that I found extremely fascinating was the warranty provided by the factory - 24 hours a day 365 days a year for 100 years operation. Of course this would require upkeep (oiling, new hooks/awls) that would only be done in a factory setting but it's no wonder that these old machines chug right along after the abuse that some see. For those of you that use or used one of these - I'm looking for recommendations on where to get parts, awls, hooks, types/weights of thread, bobbins, anything else you can think of. I've heard of Pilgrim and will be contacting them soon. Edited March 16, 2015 by cgleathercraft Quote http://www.cgleathercraft.com Member of the Iron Brigade.
Members catskin Posted March 16, 2015 Members Report Posted March 16, 2015 (edited) I recommend making a flat plate sooner rather then later unless boot soles are about all you intend to use it for. I found sewing flat with the boot sole plate made it MUCH easier to break needles since there is so little support outside the needle. I made my flat plate what looks like wider and longer then the factory ones look to be from the pictures and vids but it gives good support on wider and longer things. I made mine 8" by 10"and made a guide for the inside. Some parts are available from Landis international in Montreal. I also have a message in to Pilgrim but am waiting to hear back. In Montreal needles are expensive but if you can't get them somewhere else the machine is worth it. There can be a bit of a learning curve getting the top thread tension right, read that part in the book several times. Have fun with it. Edited March 16, 2015 by catskin Quote
Members luckyclover Posted April 2, 2015 Members Report Posted April 2, 2015 I recently bought an American also. I bought new belts and some other odds and ends from Gateway Shoe Company. I now have it up and running, but could anyone point me in the right direction in figuring out how to thread it and wind bobbins? I have the "Instruction Book and List of Parts", but it doesn't make much sense to me. Quote
Members Chayne Posted April 2, 2015 Members Report Posted April 2, 2015 If you watch the video here you'll see in the beginning how its threaded. Did gateway have replacement parts? https://youtu.be/vgt0AUp3emU Quote
Members catskin Posted April 3, 2015 Members Report Posted April 3, 2015 If you watch the video here you'll see in the beginning how its threaded. Did gateway have replacement parts? https://youtu.be/vgt0AUp3emU Chayne, You haven't answered my PM asking if you got the book I tried to send you. Did you get it ? Quote
Members Chayne Posted April 3, 2015 Members Report Posted April 3, 2015 No it didn't go through... Sorry been busy and it's not the easiest thing to reply to posts. I go to email where I get the notification, click the link but then have to sign in. I sign in and the link doesnt stay in one spot so anyways thanks for trying. A gentleman gladly sent me one. I'm still on the hunt for a few parts but if I have to wait for the right price I will. Seems when someone finds your looking for parts the prices sky rocket the small market Quote
Members simran Posted April 4, 2015 Members Report Posted April 4, 2015 (edited) I had one of these American Straight Needle machines for a few years while I was building boots. I think I paid around 500 for it in extremely good condition. Dang thing never missed a stitch. I used it for sewing side seams. Worked good for that and also sewing knife sheaths. I think I still have the soling plate from the one I had. When I sold it; it had the flat plate on it with a roller guide I had made for it. Edited April 4, 2015 by simran Quote Simran
Members cgleathercraft Posted April 20, 2015 Author Members Report Posted April 20, 2015 It has arrived! getting it in the house was a pain. re-strung it gave it some oil and turned it by hand a bit to make sure everything was going to work ok. makes some nice stitches. Waiting for the manual to get here before I plug it in and ramp it up. Also need to buy hooks, awls, and some extra bobbins. The lube pot is missing the heater so using thread wax is probably out of the question. Is there another kind of thread lube i could use? or is it really needed at all? once i get everything working on it i'm going to make a flat plate for it any other recommendations on sizing the flat plate? Quote http://www.cgleathercraft.com Member of the Iron Brigade.
Members cgleathercraft Posted July 23, 2015 Author Members Report Posted July 23, 2015 Reviving this old thread I just recently got the stitcher up and working without much of an issue. Actually reading the manual helped 10x more than playing around (who would have thought lol). Tiny little adjustments make all the difference in the world - a quarter turn on the awl and what seemed like nothing actually lined it up with the needle perfectly. It was out of adjustment just a little when I got it so just going with what it was originally was not a good idea. Almost bent an $8 needle. I received needles/awls/thread from Panhandle Leather. I am using neatsfoot oil in the wax pot (read that its used in place of thread wax/lubricant in several other places).The clutch was frozen but came loose with a tiny bit of oil on the drive shaft and and a gentle nudge with a screwdriver. It now spins freely except when engaged. The belt was just a little stretched and could probably do with being replaced. I shortened it up by about an inch and made a new metal staple from the wire on a wool dauber. It could probably be shortened by another 1/4 inch but I'm not entirely certain I want to go any shorter yet. In the few test runs i've sewn as little as 8oz up to 20oz and it handled both equally well without adjustment which surprised me quite a bit. Since i have found very little information on this machine I plan to document what I've done and put it on my website with pictures and detailed explanations. Quote http://www.cgleathercraft.com Member of the Iron Brigade.
Moderator Art Posted July 23, 2015 Moderator Report Posted July 23, 2015 CG, You might want to try some of the Sellari's products. They make a Liquid Wax and also the Traditional Hard Wax. They also make a Cleaner that works great for getting all the crap out of my 12s, just be careful that that crap might be holding the whole thing together. Then there is the Thread Lube that I use in the Lube Pot on my Campbell, Sellari's Lube also works. These lube/wax are white and water soluble (at least the Campbell is), and are quite different from the clear lube we use for nylon/poly threads in the threaded needle machines. The white liquid waxes just don't require heat to melt them. Good luck with your ASN, and welcome to Iron Brigade. Art Quote For heaven's sakes pilgrim, make yourself a strop!
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