Asking For Patterns: Opinions, Please

[8thsinner]

One of my gifts of skill is the ability to come up with new designs using my existing knowledge. Unfortunately MY knowledge is sometimes not as comprehensive as it can be, Also given that I was taught you gain nothing from asking no questions I have no quams about asking for someone to share their designs.

And when it comes to reversing the argument, I happily will give away my designs (But I hate them being stolen) and spend countless hours trying to figure out how to help people, I am generous like that as I believe knowledge should be freely shared, I also believe if this was the case world wide we would all be a little smarter. And we would get to where we are going a lot more quickly.

In any case, Designing is something I do constantly, I am always trying to figure out new ways of doing things and applying the skills and tricks I have discovered or read about. So why shouldn't I help others utilize my skills, It's part of what this forum is for is it not. Showing off your work is fun and pictures are always welcomed, These things are what inspires us to create and expand our own knowledge and ideas, and challenges our concepts of whats possible and opens the mind.

This to me is a great thing.

But to steal and not ask is just plain wrong.

Sorry to be philosophical but, well I am...

[Daggrim]

I'd be glad to help someone with advice about doing something similar to what I do, even specific advice about how to duplicate my item, but I wouldn't share the patterns. It took me many hours of concentrated work to get these helmets to look good, and to go together without much fuss (minimizing the Fuss Factor is a major portion of any successful design). I gathered all my info from the internet, and thru experimentation, and talking with other crafts people, and I'd just draw the line somewhere.

Dag

[jbird]

I don't have much time in the sharing thing but I will say that the members on this site have been wonderfull to help and share, and a thanks is in order because your opinion is share and your time is sharing so thanks for your help I have tried to be thankfull because lord knows I have needed a lot of work.

[bruce johnson]

We sure do see some great looking designs and patterns on our site. Question: is it bad form do you think to ask someone if they'd be willing to share? What do you think?

Harvey,

I don't see any problems with asking. The worst anyone can say when you ask is "no", and we've all heard that word from about the first time we hit daylight. Some people have propriety secrets (that may or may not be secret anyway) they won't share. To be honest I have heard a heck of lot about the secretive leatherworkers. I have been refused a direct technique question or advice exactly twice in 20 years. I have not always been told specifically how to do something, but left to figure some things out on my own.

[hidepounder]

I don't think there is anything wrong with asking for help! We all need help at one time or another. Sharing our knowledge of techniques, methods and processes is what this forum is all about. But if the subject is proprietary, don't be surprised if the request is ignored! And you know what ?......no harm, no foul. I know that I'm willing to share what I've learned....I didn't learn everything all on my own....much was shared with me over the years.

Sharing ones knowledge, however, is very different than sharing your work. If you want to copy something that I do....I'll help you....after all, imitation is the purest form of flattery. But please don't ask me to send you a pattern I spent hours or days drawing for a customers project! I don't draw very well....it's hard for me...and I'm trying to get paid for my efforts. You may as well ask me for my pants because you can't find yours! Asking for a freebe is not the same as asking for help...and that's inappropriate.

Is it okay to ask someone to draw for you? Absolutely....perfectly acceptable...a mutual arrangement between two individuals. There's nothing wrong with that. However......if you really want to learn.......ask for a hand, not a hand-out!

[ttownfire]

I believe in open-source software. Likewise, I believe in open-source knowledge.

To me its funny to think that you have a proprietary secret in the world of sewing, stitching, general fabric or leather work. Patents are good for items that have been engineered and tested with NASA like precision and expense. Items like our Firefighter gear and such. But for consumer driven clothing and soft-goods manufacture I think patents are silly.

There are tips and tricks that will help make the job a bit easier, no doubt. However, if someone really wants to copy something you've made, they will do it if capable with or without your help. The only thing you can really control is the creative aspect that went into the design and being first to market. Everything else is replicable for the most part, it will only take time on the part of the person trying to replicate.

One should never rest thinking they have a lock on a certain style, method or market. One should always be expanding the creative aspect of the work as everything else beyond that is basically the same. At least that is how I see it... YMMV

Edited November 14, 2008 by ttownfire

[TwinOaks]

Asking for help with a pattern is good, even asking someone to make it for you. As was said, the worst that can be said is "No". We have a section here called "How do I do that?" in which there are LOTS of questions- it's one way to help keep beating a dead cow. I also have to agree that sometimes the correct answer is "no". BOOMstick recently put up a holster pic that I absolutely loved, and at some point will immulate--but not copy--for some of my own holsters. The reason is that he posted that design as an example of what he does for a living. That's my personal take on designs. Images floating around the 'net are a little different, but I will make an effort to change an image I like so that it doesn't infringe on anyone's copyright, or will ask permission to use it. Of the several times that I've asked permission to use a specific image as a pattern, I've never been turned down.

Then there's reverse engineering. If you're making something for you and won't be mass producing it, or marketing it, then there's probably no problem. If you do start making and selling the item without significant changes, it can cause a world of problems in a legal way. This happened here with a holster design, where one person said " look what I did, and I have a contract with "X" custom gun maker." Another person was alerted and said " REALLY? That looks like a knock off of MY design which has been in production for several years. In fact, it IS my design!!! I know that gun maker personally and will be contacting him about this, and we'll see you in court." The result I believe was the cancelation of the contract with the first person, and the worse thing, a very tarnished reputation. ( I think this was the Versamax VMII....it was pre-crash)

Edited November 14, 2008 by TwinOaks

[K-Man]

I don't think there's anything wrong with asking for help and/or a pattern, provided it's not proprietary in some form.

I got a bit irked not long ago by a person who asked for advice on a number of aspects of holster making. I don't have a problem sharing most of what I know or directing a person to a source to get their information. What this person did though was take that information I provided, made up a holster very similar to what I offer and offered it for 1/2 the cost I sell mine for. They sell it on a very popular gun forum. Kind of made me think I was cutting my own throat. My perspective now is that there are those out there who will do that, but there are a far greater number who don't.

I've gotten help from everyone I've contacted here on LW, without hesitation. I've asked for patterns, and drawings, and critiques. And I appreciate everyone's help.

[Hilly]

I don't think there is anything wrong with asking for help! We all need help at one time or another. Sharing our knowledge of techniques, methods and processes is what this forum is all about. But if the subject is proprietary, don't be surprised if the request is ignored! And you know what ?......no harm, no foul. I know that I'm willing to share what I've learned....I didn't learn everything all on my own....much was shared with me over the years.

Sharing ones knowledge, however, is very different than sharing your work. If you want to copy something that I do....I'll help you....after all, imitation is the purest form of flattery. But please don't ask me to send you a pattern I spent hours or days drawing for a customers project! I don't draw very well....it's hard for me...and I'm trying to get paid for my efforts. You may as well ask me for my pants because you can't find yours! Asking for a freebe is not the same as asking for help...and that's inappropriate.

Is it okay to ask someone to draw for you? Absolutely....perfectly acceptable...a mutual arrangement between two individuals. There's nothing wrong with that. However......if you really want to learn.......ask for a hand, not a hand-out!

Hidepouder, your drawing skills are fantastic! I look at the finger carving you do, which is really just "drawing" with your swivel knife, and I am amazed! I only wish I could be as artistically challenged as you.

[Hilly]

[soapbox]

I don't think asking for a pattern is a bad thing. I've done it myself, and the person I asked was gracious enough to share. I did make the promise to only use it for my own personal use, and not to sell. A promise I will keep. I also learned a few things along the way in constructing this project, and although I won't share his pattern, I will share what I have learned from it if I can help someone in the future.

[/soapbox]