Making Straight Holes In Something Round And Curved

[MorningStarL]

This isn't finished, but I thought what I'm asking about would show better if I took pictures now. This is a knife sheath with no belt loop, for someone I know to carry a knife in pocket or purse. That means there's no front and back; they're both going to be fronts sometimes. The tooling's more than I usually do, but I miscalculated the distance between leaves and needed to fill at the last moment, then did the other side to match.

I've just started using an awl for sewing holes and I'm having the same old problem. A knife sheath isn't flat or regular in contour. I'm not always able to flatten them enough for the hole to go straight up and down. I'm pleased with the "front" of this, meaning, the side the awl went through from. Very pleased, actually. In the back, the stitch line wanders, and I did do three of the holes twice, because they wandered SO badly.

I'll be grateful for any input.

[MorningStarL]

Merged threads

[Jim]

I used to use a sewing awl. I watched my dad do repairs on saddles and other things and that's what he used, so as did I. It did not take long however to figure out that I could sew a lock stich by hand a whole lot faster by hand after pre-punching the holes. This not only saved time but also saved me the risk of the awl needle breaking. (sorry for the history lesson folks.)

The thing to do is: 1 - Retire that sewing awl. 2 - Find the center line of your sheath template and draw out your stich line and stich placements one side of the template. A 3/16" spacing for the stitches is ideal. Place a metal ruler or 12" framing square on the center line and fold the template over with the stitch marks showing. Then use scratch awl to punch the holes through both sides of the template at once.

Now, you can transfer this to the leather, cut and trim and then pre-punch all the stitch holes. When you sew it together, everything line up. Problem solved.

Use the attached PDF to help you along. It's a portion of the Book of Leather Work.

Jim

Knife Sheath.pdf

[MorningStarL]

Thank you. To make sure I'm clear, that gives me stitch holes already made on both sides of the sheath before I glue up, and once it is glued together with the welt I go back through the holes from the top, with the scratch awl, to make the holes through the welt? I haven't been using a sewing awl, but a straight awl, from front to back, after everything's glued together with the welt.

[Dwight]

I have too many machines to do a lot of hand sewing, . . . but occasionally I have to do it.

For example a knife sheath would be glued together, . . . welt inserted, . . . edges sanded, burnished, beveled, etc.

I use my stitch gouger on both sides of the piece, . . . then go to the top end and make my first hole, . . . as straight down as I can do it, . . . but I don't go all the way through, . . . just far enough to be able to turn it over, . . . and see where the point wants to come out.

If it is not on the stitch line, . . . I pull it back a bit, . . . adjust the angle of thrust, . . . and try again. I keep this up until I have that first hole exactly where it needs to be to look right.

I then take my stitch wheel and mark both sides of the stitch gouge, . . . starting with a point in that first hole I've already made.

Then, . . . just make the rest of the holes, . . . starting on top, . . . not going all the way through, . . . turning it over, . . . looking where the point is coming through, . . adjust it to come through on the mark you made in the gouge with the stitch wheel.

I do all my holes first, . . . then come back and stitch.

Probably not the most efficient, . . . but for an old codger like me, . . . it works, . . . that's all that counts.

May God bless,

Dwight

[MorningStarL]

Thanks again, Dwight. I'm stitching everything by hand because I don't have any alternative. Getting my stitching lines looking good is very important to me.

I haven't been using the stitch groover on the back because i KNOW I'm going to miss at least some of the time, and I'm trying not to underline that.

[Jim]

My apologies. I misunderstood which awl. Also, when you have all the stitch holes pre-punched, you don't have to glue it together. All gluing does is create the probability of the holes getting mis-aligned. Put the welt between the two sides of the sheath and tie it off in a couple of places. Then sew it up removing the "tie offs" when you come to them.

Trust me on this, it works much better.

Jim

[TwinOaks]

The misaligned stitch line is the result of a tilted awl, nothing more. The solution is to keep the awl in the same position by 1. Practice, or 2. use a jig or machine. You didn't mention how you did your sewing - i.e. Did you place it on a table and pushed awl through, or did you hold it up so you could see both sides?

As you have a standard awl, you need to do something to mark it. This can be a flat spot where your thumb/finger goes, it can be a spot made with a marker...anything. Do this so that you can have the awl in the same position in your hand for every stitch. That addresses consistency of stitch angle. Next, try Dwight's method. If you're worried about stabbing the awl too far through the leather, just add some 'washers' made out of leather- just stack them up on the awl blade until you have 'the right amount' of blade sticking out. (For consistency's sake, I use the little 'hole centers' that are left over from punching holes in leather).

Another option is to use something like a stitching horse/saddler's clam. It has a pair of jaws that hold the work in front of you so that can see both sides of the work. Start the awl on one side and look to see where the tip of the awl starts to penetrate the leather. If it's not where you want, pull back and adjust. The often overlooked utility of the clam type holder is that if you place the stitch line at the edge of the jaws, the jaws themselves can act as a sewing guide. It's next to impossible to get the stitch too low because there's a jaw in the way. Insert awl, and if it feels like you're hitting something solid...you are! Just adjust up a little bit, and you'll be on the line. It still requires practice, though.

As far as using a jig or machine, there have been several types posted on this forum. The simplest way is to just insert the awl blade into a (**unplugged**) drill press and use that to punch your holes. Just make sure that the blade doesn't change orientation. Other tpes of jig/machine do the same thing - it's just a method of keeping the awl blade perpendicular to the leather, and giving a little leverage to the operator.

[TwinOaks]

I'm also going to offer a counter argument to Jim's preference of not glueing. I try to always glue my edges because I think it adds to the appearance and longevity of the finished product. That said, I also like nice solid looking edges (reference Hidepounder/Bob Park's tutorial on edges).

A glued edge is less likely to separate over time. Use and abuse certainly will show on it, but I don't want any of my products having a edge that looks like well worn book pages. With a quality glue/cement you'll have a stronger edge as well. IF your stitches do get worn and break, a glued edge will still try to stay together. It *might* still separate, but it's not a forgone conclusion. An edge that's ONLY stitched has nothing else holding it together, so if a stitch breaks, it will separate.

Here's an important note about gluing edges - Don't use so much glue that it's sloppy and glue is running all over everything. If you take time to read the instructions, most products work better. The first couple of times I used a contact cement, I had 'glue boogers' on the edge from the glue being squeezed out because I used a lot of glue (more is better, right?) and stuck the pieces together while it was wet. Those glue boogers are a PITA to remove, make a bump/gap in the finished edge, and are harder to dye. So, following the old adage "When all else fails.....read the instructions", I did. Hmm...it said "apply a thin layer to both pieces and allow to dry until tacky"......sonuvagun! I followed the directions and when I put the pieces together they stuck right there, with no squeezed out glue, no sliding around, no problems at all.....and the glue was all the way to the edge with no bumps. Now when I glue edges together before sewing, the result is uniform and I end up with two (or more) pieces of leather acting like a single piece which means that I have ZERO movement of the leather.

[MorningStarL]

I've been using contact cement, and I'm not having squeeze-out problems with it. Until a few weeks ago when I joined the group I was drilling holes because I didn't know any better, and hand-sewing. I've had the awl chucked into the drill press since I started using it, because my hands aren't strong and my fingers are sore with arthritis. The drill bit (and I hated how huge and visible the holes were and am glad to have the awl instead) and the awl are both held vertical in the press. The problem with misaligned stitching happens most as I'm approaching the top of the sheath, where the welt is thicker, and there's more space for the knife handle and therefore more give.

I can see that using a stitching pony would help with that. I need practice with the awl and I've got lots of leather scraps I can sew together to do that, before I work on the next sheath. I had a wonderful stitching pony, made for me by my knifemaker, but while I was away he used it a lot while gluing up knives and it's not as clean any more as I need it to be for leather. Maybe that can be my weekend project, is reclaiming it, and practising. I'll try the different methods.

Mike, I'm about to use Hidepounder's instructions for the edge of this sheath. I would wonder too, if the welt's not glued, about the edges holding together or wearing, and also about whether the knife blade might slip between the sheath and the welt and slitting the stitches. I'll keep trying things out and seeing how they work for me. Thanks everyone; happy weekend.

[snubbyfan]

I personally use a diamond chisel, with my motor nerve condition it's easier for me. I prepunch all my stitch holes after glueing and beveling my edges. If I'm using a welt it's all glued together, edges sanded, beveled, stitch groove grooved then I'll use the diamond chisel to make the stitch holes. I don't go all the way through and finish the holes with a hand held diamond chisel lining it up with the backside before punching all the way through.

[MorningStarL]

Boy, that's beautiful work, Snubby. I'm here in a short window between getting home and going out again and I'll watch the video later. Thank you for your help.

[snubbyfan]

Boy, that's beautiful work, Snubby. I'm here in a short window between getting home and going out again and I'll watch the video later. Thank you for your help.

Thanks, hope ya get something out of the video besides 33 minutes and 42 seconds older.

If you're interested, I've got a 3 video series on making a fold over holster.

Check my YouTube Channel.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOM3hbruUKHov9kquIxXKlA/videos

Edited February 8, 2015 by snubbyfan

[MorningStarL]

I've never made a holster yet, and here in north Texas, I get asked to. There's a little Ruger I'd like to practise on, so I'll watch them all over the next few days. Thanks again.

[Jim]

What model and caliber Ruger is it? I probably have a pattern.

Jim

[MorningStarL]

It's a Ruger Mark II .22 Cal Long Rifle, Jim, and thank you. I've been able to carry it stuffed in the back pocket of my jeans, but it ruins my look that way.

This will be the last sheath I do, I think, before we move the single-wide this weekend. Lots of prep. I'm trying hidepounder's instructions for edge treatments. Here it is, ready for Fiebings' USMC Black dye.

[redboneusa]

Howdy,

Here's my first post! I been lurking here for some time now, getting lots of good info.

I realize that this thread is a few months old but I am asking Snubby if he will talk about the finish on that awesome holster. I made my fist shoulder rig, which turned out very nice in my eyes. However the finish looks like crap.

Any info of the finishing products or process would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

[snubbyfan]

Howdy,

Here's my first post! I been lurking here for some time now, getting lots of good info.

I realize that this thread is a few months old but I am asking Snubby if he will talk about the finish on that awesome holster. I made my fist shoulder rig, which turned out very nice in my eyes. However the finish looks like crap.

Any info of the finishing products or process would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Redbone,

It's dyed with Fiebings Professional Oil Dye in Saddle Tan.

I have a video on an AIWB holster. The color's different but the finishing procedure's the same.

If you interested, I've got more leather working videos plus some general silliness on my YouTube channel.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOM3hbruUKHov9kquIxXKlA/videos

I'm about to start a few projects, so stay tuned.