Original Singer 45K Users Manual

[jimi]

Thanks Tor, very interesting that Adler manual page, were all the adler manuals like this? and did they copy all the singer attachments for this jump foot machine?? that is what you do not find these days, manuals where they explain and show the accessories working. especially the old machines. i also have that binder attachment from an adler and was thinking maybe the single row of teeth down the left side of the needle could possibly work?? it might not leave teeth marks on the binder strip?? in the picture it is binding one piece of leather, so marks underneath wont matter much. does it say anything about the needle plate and feed dog used with the binder attachment?? regards jimi.

[Trox]

Hi, like I said before Singer was the one doing the copying, not Adler.

Tor

[jimi]

Aha! so i see you are an adler man! then i should have said " and did singer copy all the adler attachments for this jump foot machine??"

[Trox]

Every one copied each other when possible. Its like today, when a popular product is out of patent protection, then its soon forgotten who made it in the first place. Anyway, Kochs Adler constructed many popular machines and Singer copied a lot of them. Here they copied the Adler class 204-64 and 205-64, then called it 45A-92 and 45A-93. They did not even bother to make their own part list for, so they copied those too http://parts.singerco.com/IPpartCharts/45A92.pdf http://parts.singerco.com/IPpartCharts/45A93.pdf its the original German Adler part lists. The 204/205 are successors of the class 4 and 5, who later became 104 and 105. Class 4 and 5 are the same machines as the 45K. The number "45" contains 4 and 5 together, and is not the machine model number 45 Singer made.(Its not a logical class number for Singer) And the class 45K are both cylinder bed and flatbed machines together. Where came this class number from? Its only one logical explanation, they stole it from Adler. This is my (conspiracy) theory anyway

You cannot find such behavior in the history of the DA company. Of course everybody starts with copying others, but when Adler became better they made their own design. Singer bought up allot of small good companies and carried on copying when they needed too. Business is business and when its legal it alright.

There are many who will not agree with me in this theory. They both made/make good sewing machines who are copied by others today.

[Constabulary]

I don't agree with this theory (Class 4 + 5 >> 45K).

As far as I know Singer already produced 45K´s when Adler was still producing the Class 3 which is the predecessor of the Class 4.

45K flat bed and Adler Class4 are a bit different - the 45K´s are shorter than the Adler Class 4. Therefore I´d say the Class 4 is rather an improvement of the 45K. I don't think Singer would produce shorter machines when they copy something.

But thats just my theory w/o proof.

[shoepatcher]

Trox,

Just so you know, Adler copied Singer in the patch machine department. As far as I can tell, the first IFA or patch machine was made by Claes in 1869. Singer made their first patch machine in the late 1870's. Koch Adler made theirs after that. Both the early Singer and Adler patch machine were good but the later ones as we well know were better.

glenn

[jimi]

Thanks for all of the information and opinions guys, this is interesting to hear? what about Elias Howe? i saw a saddlers machine a month ago on ebay france with his badge and serial nº which was very cool. it was a cylinder arm with a brass arm cover and it had a continuous feed dog ring like the one found on the singer class 18 ?? i wish i had kept a picture or two to show you all.

[Trox]

I don't agree with this theory (Class 4 + 5 >> 45K).

As far as I know Singer already produced 45K´s when Adler was still producing the Class 3 which is the predecessor of the Class 4.

45K flat bed and Adler Class4 are a bit different - the 45K´s are shorter than the Adler Class 4. Therefore I´d say the Class 4 is rather an improvement of the 45K. I don't think Singer would produce shorter machines when they copy something.

But thats just my theory w/o proof.

A German "Singer" man I knew this with would stir up some feelings. Perhaps, they had to use some parts they already had from another class, I do not know. There are many factors in play here, Singer did not have to clone it; just copy what they needed. There are lot of circumstantial evidence here, and when I always find such cases like the 45A, it makes you start thinking:)

Thats right Shoe patcher, they both copied others in the beginning. However, in the modern sewing machine history DA is the company everybody else trying to copy. You have to invent your own stuff to be marked leading, thats what DA did.

And again this are just my theories too

Tor

[Constabulary]

ha ha ha - yes, Indeed a German Singer man but that just happened - I never really had the intension of only owning / buying Singers. I have tried many machines (lots of trial and error). I just kept what suited best for my needs and one reason for keeping a machine always was (and still is) the availability of spare parts w/o calling dealer all over the the world. And thats a big advantage for the Singers or their clones. For all machines I own a good number of spare parts are available for reasonable prices. And so far all after market parts I have bought are of good quality (with two exceptions - a 133K tension release disc and a 29K shuttle carrier spring). The only exception is the 307G2 but I figured a lot of parts from other Singer machines fit. (hook, feed dog, throat plate....) But everybody has his preferences and meanwhile I really like the the "idea" of old Singers.

But I honestly don`t care of who copied from who. I just don´t think the 45K is an Adler 4 / 5 clone. I`m also convinced that the Adler 4 is the better built machine. Some of the last Singer industrial machines are indeed made by Adler or copied from their machines like 45A, 169, 220 and I think some other Adler machines with Singer labels. Belief it or not - a couple of weeks ago I have seen a Claes / Textima patcher (one of the latest models) and it had a Singer decal on the upper arm.

Nothing is impossible in this business....

[Trox]

Hi, thats right, its easier to find vintage Singer Spare part than Adler.

https://www.college-sewing.co.uk/1415C%3d97800-TENSION-UNIT-COMPLETE-SEIKO-132K

Is this what you are looking for? just parts of these unit are more difficult to find I think. (its Seiko, but thats good too)

The Singer 29 K shuttle carrier spring # 8610 https://www.college-sewing.co.uk/8610-SHUTTLE-CARRIER-SPRING-SINGER-29K

Took me 4 min. to find these parts in UK (Singer country)

College Sewing has allot of stuff for industrial sewing machine, it does not matter what brand it is. But known classes like 29k and 133K, you came to right place. But next time I need something to for one of my Adler's, I will ask you to do a German search in for me; deal?

It like you say its is, nothing is impossible in the world of industrial sewing machine. Strange unknown machine suddenly appears, made exclusively for one large customer. They take a suitable head from another brand and fill it with their own shafts and gears. Its like with the Adler 221 sail maker machine, DA buys clone machines and trow away their part, using their own spare part to be able fulfill a order for such a machine.

So nothing surprises me any more.

Tor