Good Weight Leather For Wet Forming.

[Pit 4 Brains]

I have been looking at thousands of pics of holsters before trying to make one. My goal was to replace my Bianchi with a similar leather holster that will not rock or slide on the belt. I am new to leather so please bear with me. I have minimal tools but the collection slowly grows. I have wet formed a few small projects and I can't seem to achieve that "vacuum sealed " look that I want. In reality, my leather looks like I beat it to shape with a hammer. I used 6-8 oz veg tanned leather. Is my leather too thick to get a good fitting form? All in all, this holster came out well and it's something I'll wear when hunting since I won't mind dragging it through the Sonoran Desert brush.

The things I like:

My stitching is becoming more consistent as I go. I use a saddle stitch with a knot.

The holster wears well and fits my contour well.

The things I don't like:

Fingernail marks

Everything else

I tried to make this a pancake with the inside as flat as possible by making the outer leather bigger than the inner. It almost worked but glueing the two different sized pieces together was a solid pain. I guess I'll open myself self up to any and all criticism. I really want to learn how to make holsters as a hobby and maybe even a side income of sorts to pad a retirement.

Thanks, Pete

Edited April 19, 2015 by Pit 4 Brains

[camano ridge]

If you are trying to make a flat back holster, my suggestion is to wet form the front first. Tape your gun down to a flat board or surface. Get your piece of leather pretty wet (make sure your piece of leather is big enough to cover the gun and allow plenty of room for shaping. Now press the leather to the gun forming it to the gun. Let it sit for a while to loose some of the moisture content. now form it some more as tight against the gun as you can. Mark your approx stitch line and put some push pins through the leather and into the board. This will hold the leather in place while it dries. Let dry, after a couple of hours pull the gun out and let the leather dry completely. Now cut to shape mark your belt slots and place over the piece of leather that will be the back. Outline the shape of the holster onto the piece that will be the back. Cut the back out and assemble. If it is a lined holster you will want to stitch the mouth and the toe before assembling.

You stitched the mouth so I assume it is a lined holster, however I don't see a stitch line across the toe of the holster. I would suggest beveling and burnishing the edges a little more. No offense but in the picture of the toe opening of the holster it looks like the leather was cut with a coarse blade cross cut saw. The weight of leather should be fine most of mine are 8-9oz, if lined 5-6 with 3-4oz. As to the fingernail marks everyone learns that the hard way. Trim the nails and watch where and how you are placing your finger tips when working the leather.

Edited April 19, 2015 by camano ridge

[Pit 4 Brains]

Thanks for the tip on the flat back holster.

I have to admit, I got wrapped up in this thing that I forgot to bevel all together. I did most of it after stitching and staining. I need to concentrate on my order of processes.

I did not line this, I just thought the stitching would look good along all edges. As for the toe, another overlook.

I think I need to fall back and do a simpler pancake without a retention strap.

[camano ridge]

Well I am not saying that this was not a decent holster for your first attempt, because it is a decent one for the first. Just pointing out some things for the next one. When you do the next one try to remember to bevel the edges of the mouth of the holster and the toe before assembling then to the main edges after you have put the holster together.

[Pit 4 Brains]

Well I am not saying that this was not a decent holster for your first attempt, because it is a decent one for the first. Just pointing out some things for the next one. When you do the next one try to remember to bevel the edges of the mouth of the holster and the toe before assembling then to the main edges after you have put the holster together.

It may not look beveled in the pic, but it was. I think it's the black edging I used for a final touch (another thing I think looks cheesy).

I think it may help if I have my tools out in plain sight and in order of usage..

When beveling the mouth and toe, is it imperative to not bevel the parts that are going to make up the welt? if so, how do you determine that point ? Is it right at the stitching or a little towards the welt or the mouth/toe?

Thanks ..

Edited April 19, 2015 by Pit 4 Brains

[camano ridge]

Figure where your stitch lines will be then bevel the inside of the mouth and toe between the stitch lines. If you bevel the inside edge of the pieces that get glued and stitched together you will end up with a groove in the middle of your edge. I found that out the hard way along time ago.

[Red Cent]

This is a good investment. At least it works very well for me. I practically saturate the leather and drape the leather over the mold gun or a protected real one. When you hit the start button, help the leather to stay close to the gun so you can get some good angles on the leather and makes for tight stitching. The leather will remain wet but the shape will form. Leave the bag closed for an hour or so. Remove the leather and gun and leave the leather on the gun. When out side is somewhat dry, remove gun and let dry. If sunlight is available at this time, ya got it made.

http://www.amazon.com/FoodSaver-FM2000-000-Vacuum-Sealing-System/dp/B00LUGK5XA/ref=lp_1090768_1_10?s=kitchen&ie=UTF8&qid=1429496187&sr=1-10

[Pit 4 Brains]

This is a good investment. At least it works very well for me. I practically saturate the leather and drape the leather over the mold gun or a protected real one. When you hit the start button, help the leather to stay close to the gun so you can get some good angles on the leather and makes for tight stitching. The leather will remain wet but the shape will form. Leave the bag closed for an hour or so. Remove the leather and gun and leave the leather on the gun. When out side is somewhat dry, remove gun and let dry. If sunlight is available at this time, ya got it made.

http://www.amazon.com/FoodSaver-FM2000-000-Vacuum-Sealing-System/dp/B00LUGK5XA/ref=lp_1090768_1_10?s=kitchen&ie=UTF8&qid=1429496187&sr=1-10

I had one of those. It wasn't cost effective to store food at all as fast as we ate it. Wish I had it now. I'll be in the used market for one now.. Thanks for the scoop on that method.

[Pit 4 Brains]

Figure where your stitch lines will be then bevel the inside of the mouth and toe between the stitch lines. If you bevel the inside edge of the pieces that get glued and stitched together you will end up with a groove in the middle of your edge. I found that out the hard way along time ago.

Ok, stitch line to stitch line.

I think I'll do a much simpler one this week with the leather I have left. Maybe just a bit wider than the belt loops for a high-carry, non-retained type.

I use some simple Tandy waxed thread laid in a groove with a 2mm Craftool diamond punch (two prong). What 's the norm on hand stitching these things if I might ask?

I had one of those. It wasn't cost effective to store food at all as fast as we ate it. Wish I had it now. I'll be in the used market for one now.. Thanks for the scoop on that method.

Does the texture of the inside of the bag imprint itself on the leather?

[camano ridge]

Everybody develops there way. Your method is used by some others use other methods. I myself use a groover then mark my holes with an over stitch wheel then poke each hole with a diamond awl. Its not one way is better then another it's what works for you.

I have one of the Costco vacuum sealers. the texture is only on one side of the bag, so when I insert my holster I make sure the front of the holster is against the smooth side. The texture wil imprint on the back side but it is a light diamond texture and on the back of the holster not a big deal.

[supercub]

Everybody develops there way. Your method is used by some others use other methods. I myself use a groover then mark my holes with an over stitch wheel then poke each hole with a diamond awl. Its not one way is better then another it's what works for you.

I have one of the Costco vacuum sealers. the texture is only on one side of the bag, so when I insert my holster I make sure the front of the holster is against the smooth side. The texture wil imprint on the back side but it is a light diamond texture and on the back of the holster not a big deal.

I used to use these as well. If you put a thin piece of cardboard on the back of the holster against the diamond texture pattern of the bag, you won't leave any marks on the leather. I use a different method now for vacuum bagging, but I made many holsters and sheaths with a food saver. They work well, but the bags can be expensive.

[Red Bear Haraldsson]

Pit,

I still cannot figure out how to cut and paste any sites in here, but...

http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=18101 Hidepounder's edge finishing tutorial is great.

[chiefjason]

First, you will not get vacuum tight without, well, the vacuum. But you don't need it either. Just accept a bit of difference and learn how to bone in the details.

I use 8-9 oz leather. I do all my holsters flat back. CR has you headed in the right direction. Search flat back on here and you will get some more info. I posted some a while back.

For getting marks out, cut the head off of a smooth round handled tooth brush. Use the smooth rounded handle to burnish out any boo boos. The last thing I do to my front piece before drying is burnish the wings to get out any marks. That tool will let you push the edges in better and get some details. I do all my line details with a bone folder.

This is a Sig P229 IIRC. Flat back. All hand formed and boned. Hand stitched. FWIW, it's taken me a couple years to get here but I'm happy with it.

[Pit 4 Brains]

Like anything else, looks like I have a lot of trial and error ahead of me. Thanks for all the tips and help. I'll be forming up another this weekend and applying what I have learned with this one.

-Pete

[Lobo]

Any weight of veg-tanned cowhide can be wet-formed. The differences will be in the degree of moisture content required and the effort necessary to do the forming work.

Most of the holsters coming out of my shop are made of either 6/7 or 7/8, depending primarily on the size and weight of the intended handgun and the specific holster style. Much of my production is lined holsters, for which a lining leather of about 3 oz. weight is used. Some of my designs utilize double-layer construction, two layers of veg-tanned cemented together flesh side to flesh side, for which I use 5/6 oz. (makes an extremely sturdy holster).

When wet-forming there are a few guidelines I can offer:

1. Unlined pieces absorb water more readily than lined. Undyed leather absorbs water more easily than dyed.

2. Using hot tap water results in easier forming more quickly.

3. Generally I allow about 1 second of immersion in the water per ounce of leather weight (longer for lined and two-layer pieces) before starting the forming.

4. Your leather will not begin to retain the forming work until the moisture content has dropped considerably. The first forming will be very general, with some stretching and molding to intended shape.

5. After the first forming the holster needs to dry quite a bit. I use an oven maintained at about 120-125F degrees, allowing about 8 to 10 minutes in the oven after the first forming.

6. Second forming will then start to take final shapes and contours, and light boning can be done at this stage. Then the piece goes back into the oven for 8 to 10 minutes.

7. Holster should be ready for final forming and detail boning. Belt loops or slots can be formed to final shape (I use wooden mandrels 1/4" thick by actual belt width forced into the loops to form to correct size and shape).

8. After final forming and boning the holster goes into a drying cabinet maintained at 105-108F degrees. Complete drying can take 3 to 5 hours, but longer times won't hurt anything and I've been known to leave it going overnight.

The key to forming is doing the work when the temperature and moisture content of the leather is optimal. When the moisture content is too high the forming will not be retained. If the moisture content is too low the forming, molding, and boning will be incomplete at best. We have to find the "groove" and stay in it.

I also recommend against overworking the leather, especially while boning. One pass of the tool can leave a precise impression, but multiple passes are likely to result in sloppy impressions.

The 8 to 10 minute oven cycles allow me to do other work such as cutting, assembling, and stitching the next order in line, dressing edges and beveling, etc. Following a cycle as described usually allows me to complete a production batch of 8 to 12 pieces over a few hours, then leaving that batch in the drying cabinet for several hours. Three or four production batches like this are done each week followed by a day of finish work (oiling, burnishing edges, sealant, final finish) and hardware on 30 or 40 pieces at a time. After finishing and hardware I always allow 24 hours minimum for everything to dry completely and finishes to cure before packaging for delivery.

Been doing this so long I have trouble imagining doing just one piece at a time anymore. A slow week here is 25 pieces. A busy week will be closer to 50 (holsters, pouches, belts).

Back to the grind now.

[Pit 4 Brains]

Lobo, thanks for that VERY informative post. Before this I had never thought to do two formings. Now all I have to do is fab up some boning tools and get to work on my next holster. Thanks again,

-Pete

[cgleathercraft]

FWIW add another to the vacuum sealer crowd. to save $ on the bags use the rolls and cut them a foot or two longer than you need. that way when you cut it open your only cutting off a couple inches and can reuse the same bag till it's too small to fit everything inside. instead of 2 disposable bags out of 2 feet you can probably get 5+

[Thornton]

I use a garbage bag and a shop vac to form mine.

[Pit 4 Brains]

FWIW add another to the vacuum sealer crowd. to save $ on the bags use the rolls and cut them a foot or two longer than you need. that way when you cut it open your only cutting off a couple inches and can reuse the same bag till it's too small to fit everything inside. instead of 2 disposable bags out of 2 feet you can probably get 5+

I just found a couple rolls in the pantry. I asked my wife if we still had the sealer and low and behold it was tucked under the counter in the corner of the cabinets. I thought we sold it in our moving sale.

I use a garbage bag and a shop vac to form mine.

Hmm. How do you keep the garbage bag from flattening and sealing before a lll the air comes out? I tried to deflate an aircraft lifting bag like that but the low pressure at the nozzle just flattened the bag right there and left the bag somewhat inflated. And that was some heavy duty rubber too.

[Thornton]

I just found a couple rolls in the pantry. I asked my wife if we still had the sealer and low and behold it was tucked under the counter in the corner of the cabinets. I thought we sold it in our moving sale.

Hmm. How do you keep the garbage bag from flattening and sealing before a lll the air comes out? I tried to deflate an aircraft lifting bag like that but the low pressure at the nozzle just flattened the bag right there and left the bag somewhat inflated. And that was some heavy duty rubber too.

Sorry. A dish towel lets the air flow while the bag collapses. Lay the towel under whatever you are forming and you shouldn't have any problems. The vacuum storage bags for compressing clothes for storage work also, the one way valve is super handy.

[Boriqua]

Hey Pit seems we are in the same hood. the holster pictured is 8-9 oz. The trick for me is a quick submerse after sewing. probably a couple of seconds tops then right into a sealed freezer bag for about 35 minutes. I wish I could be alot more detailed but I kind of judge it by eye and feel and that is about right. After I have jammed my gun down in there I start rubbing with my thumbs and finding the grooves and high spots. I then start to work it with a bone.

https://www.tandyleather.com/en-usd/search/searchresults/8117-01.aspx

You will be surprised how much detail you can bring up with some patience but lobo was right going into it multiple times just ruins the lines. I tried the vaporlock bag and I didnt care for the results. The moisture content wasnt right for me but each to their way.

[JLSleather]

This leather measure just under 9 oz. Nothin' fancy, just some warm water ana bone tool ...

[Pit 4 Brains]

Wow. I really need to get going on my next holster. My turkey hunt is going to be a snow/rainout this weekend so I might as well get some leather tomorrow and get to work. Thanks for all the tips!

Looks like it's time to pick up one of those boning tools too..