Here we go. saddle tree test. Carbon fiber verses hide

[SITTINGUPHIGH1]

This is a test of the strength of a carbon fiber and a hide saddle tree. The hide tree is from large and old saddle tree manufactor in the United States. The strongest tree they make. Not sure what company. I think it may even have fiberglass underneath the hide. I think this is a full carbon fiber tree. No wood underneath. Ether way it is impressive. The carbon fiber saddle tree doesn't move. 60 to 80 % lighter then hide covered wooden trees.

[Johanna]

I'm not a horse person, but this doesn't seem like a fair way to compare trees because a truck running over a tree does not provide the same stresses a tree would be subject to in real life situations. My mom's car weighs several tons less than my truck, and in an accident, she is more likely to be injured than I am because her car sits lower than my truck. However, she gets double or triple the gas mileage that I do. So is my truck "better" than her car because I am less likely to be killed? You can't compare apples and oranges.

JMO- YMMV

Johanna

[Alan Bell]

That test just proves the superiority of the hide covered tree for making saddles to put on horses! The carbon fiber tree has no 'life' to it. You might as well use a piece of steel across the horses back! As Johanna points out the test is not really a fair one if we are judging how well the trees would perform for their intended uses. If we want a tree that will not flex and is rigid and has no life to it then we are not considering the horse IMHO.

Vaya con Dios, Alan Bell

[rdb]

Way back when, in some tree discussion, I suggested that carbon fiber would be the newest advancement. Since I know very little about saddles and such, I was rightfully ignored. There are still problems with it, I'm sure...like how easy is it to nail into, etc. A saddler can adjust, but if he or she needs three hands to make a saddle, that might be a detriment.

Johanna is absolutely correct, I don't know any riders who have been run over by a truck, and since many old wooden treed saddles are still around, I would think this demo speaks only to relative strength, not viability.

From everything (or what little I know..lol) I have learned here, it's not so much how or what the tree is made of, but the skill of the maker, and their ability to design and build the correct fitting, and viable product. But I'm still amazed at modern science and it's ability to create some fascinating things.

[Rod and Denise Nikkel]

a truck running over a tree does not provide the same stresses a tree would be subject to in real life situations.

I agree Johanna. On the other hand, its kind of fun to do! This is a picture where we did the same thing. This is the front end of the half ton sitting on one of our trees. The quality of materials and construction techniques used do make a difference in strength. Note: The “quality control department” had cut the lace and peeled back the rawhide when it was not yet dry to check that section of bar. It didn’t pass muster, which is why we got to drive over it! And even with that spot open, it didn't break the bar.

SITTINGUPHIGH1 – where did you get these pictures? I keep trying to figure out them out. There are at least 3 different rawhide trees in these pictures since the hardware on the first, second and fourth are all different. I can’t tell on the one squashed by the tire. And why are there bolts extending through both sides of the front of the “bar” in the first picture? I am not all that versed in English saddles, but I have seen an English tree that was a black plastic of some sort with a built in seat (broken) so some are made with the seats built in as these ones are. On the other hand, these have “bars” that extend out beyond the cantle. Are they a cross bred Aussie tree? Either way, built in ground seats aren’t “traditional” for them either. I don’t know of anyone who makes a built in rawhide seat – just fiberglass or other synthetics – so that is at least part of the covering on these trees.

We are not the ones who will run with carbon fiber technology, but I am curious about it. Is it something you have to pour into a mold? Or can it be shaped or carved on its own? Can it be used to overlay something? It is mega-strong, but how flexible is it? Too much flex is not a good thing (despite the number of flex trees out there). Anyone know anything about this stuff? rbd?

Edited November 21, 2008 by Rod and Denise Nikkel

[rdb]

I have done a little research on it for some projects I had in mind. It was a bit pricey to experiment with at the time for me. As far as I know, it is not poured. I have seen extruded pipe, etc, so at least a molten form can be used, but in general, I have seen it as a cloth type, which you bond to the next layer, similar to a fiberglass cloth buildup over a mold. It is VERY stiff, not flexible when built up like this. My concern would be the ability to nail into, not sure if you can. If you can't, then drilling holes to tack to would be a pain, I would think, just don't know for sure. It seems the lightness of the finished product, and the durability would be well worth a tree maker to explore, though.

[JAM]

I made my first saddle with a carbon-fiber/kevlar covered tree - over wood - and it was very lightweight. I anticipated difficulty nailing into it, but really there was no difficulty at all.

Julia

[barra]

Are they a cross bred Aussie tree? Either way, built in ground seats aren’t “traditional” for them either.

That first tree has me intrigued too.

Barra.

[tonyc1]

Some handgun parts are carbon fibre these days.

Tony

[Denise]

Is Kevlar and carbon fiber the same thing?