What's A Leather Artist?

[chriscraft]

Okay, this isn't aimed at the traditional leatherworker purist. That is an entire different skill and job many dont wish to obtain. I fully respect the leatherworker trade but at my age I don't have the commitment to start a new career.

I'm trying to figure out why some dont consider some types of leatherwork art.

In leatherwork, Is the word "craft" a generic term when considering a simple leather strap stamped with a name and a couple of snaps to make a wrist band. The type of stuff one would expect to find at an early 1980's out door craft fair with a price range under $10.

These arts and craft items don't compare to some of the incredible hand tooled quality leather items I've seen posted in this forum. Items that involve many hours to produce and a different skill set. Still an average consumer would only like to pay craft prices.

I believe an art form is only produced by an artist. It takes many years of study and practice to be able to finally produce an item that would be considered art. This same artist would have trained his fine motor function to then easily be able to move to a different art medium. Learn the basic skills and soon produce an attractive item. It is the person or artist that achieves this using the same tools and materials a novice would take years to achieve.

This is what makes consumers step up to the plate and purchase those big ticket items. This is why even 50 years ago the same saddle comming out of the same shop if made by a skilled and talented leatherworker would attract more attention. Even hand tools that were used by these unique workers were being mass produced and sold baring there name or brand.

So what is a leather Artist? By my understanding this would make every great leatherworker a leather artist. I've only found this term ( leather artist) referenced in a negative way.

[oldhat]

Hello Chris, i am not entirely sure i understand why you have asked this question, but i will have a go at giving you my take on it. To me a piece of art is something created by a person that expresses that individuals personality and is created usually as a one of a kind piece, so to me most of the pieces or probably all the pieces on here are by that definition works of art. So i guess that makes most of us leathercrafters leather artists.Just my own view of course for what it is worth.

[DoubleC]

I guess I'm with oldhat. I have my 5 & 10 buck items that are well made but not very artistic. You have to have those to survive the farmer's market regime. But I also have pieces I consider art, and they vary from necklaces to a square piece of leather painted on. I consider it art and maybe I use the term more loosely than you do. But if I can make something beautiful out of leather then I am artist. Cheryl

[JLSleather]

I think there SHOULD be a distinction, but often there is not. If you put the green on the #3 and red where there's a 5, hard to call you an artist. Likewise with leather - tooled or otherwise. I can teach any monkey who is not stumbling drunk how to trace a line and "bop" a shade tool or beveler. In fact, I sometimes (less than diplomatically) refer to this mechanic ROTE as "old mcdonald tooling" (here a shade, there a shade, everwhere a ...).

But I don't think art is confined to pictorial rendering either. I know a few boys who couldn't paint if you put a gun to their head, but give em some leather and a sponge and they produce GORGEOUS items - often items the rest of us didn't "see" there until it was done (much like a sculptor sees a chunk of rock).

You don't need to be on LW very long to see that certainly more than half of leather people can't paint. Well, some can't and some don't , most likely. This is why that ant-streak paste is ever-popular. It goes in the low spots and comes off the high spots, much like kindergarten shading

I try ot keep a combination of things going. I often airbrush the leather (no, I don't mean that "fade" around the edges of a project), I try to use designs that have some depth and perspective, and even the 'plain' projects I try to put a little something in the design. I really don't think about if that's "art" or just doing something I enjoy.

That said, I saw a holster the other day that was perhaps the BEST looking holster I've seen to date (and I've seen a bunch). Paddle holster, with a simple creased border set in a bit from the edge, dipped in solid mahogany dye -- monochromatic as she gits. But the simplicity of the design was not "plain", but rather functional and CLEAN - rational and orderly. Artistic even ...

[oldhat]

Hi JLS,i agree with your comments completely, painting by numbers is not art because you are not putting your own thoughts and ideas into the piece as someone else has decided what is going where so i suppose they would be the artist in such a case. I am not sure if the op is meaning that it is only art if it is pictoral as you say, hopefully they will jump in and let us know. Most people would consider a sculpture to be a piece of art, so surely we are sculpting leather, making us leather artists. When a child paints a picture is that art, i suppose some would say it is art, just not very good art, but then we get into the world of what is good art, i suppose that would be a whole other very long thread/debate.Was jackson Pollock good art? well i am not sure we want to go there

[King's X]

I'll take a whack and put my .02 cents in. I know that my opinion doesn't mean much in world circles, but here it is.

I believe an artist is an artist no matter what their medium is. If you can turn something into any form of art that others find interesting then you are an artist. Some have years of training and some have no training at all, just plain luck. I know a few that can pick up a pencil or stylus and go to town. In leather work, if you take the time to study and understand your mediums it would certainly help you develop certain skills necessary to better your craft.

Being able to work with all types of leather in different formats (plain, carved, painted, embossed, inlay, applique, etc) would certainly make you versatile. As a person, I believe you call yourself what you like. I am a hobbyist, but I do not mind being called a Craftsman, Artist, or newbie. The only term that I do not accept at this point is Master because I feel that I haven't learned enough about my craft to be one nor am I good at one part.

Interesting thread.

[cgleathercraft]

I believe that art, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.

- I had a much longer response typed but that summed it up perfectly.

[chriscraft]

What I should have asked is "What's the difference between a Leather Artist and a Leather Crafter? I came upon this question while reading here in LW these past years and I started to get confused.

I understand that a person that has gained recognition as an Artist due to a certain style can have an impact. Then if this new artist were to later produce a simple non-original item that a child can reproduce then I wouldn't call this simple item Art. Only the masterpiece that he created before would be art. I agree with JLS on the paint by numbers comment and using the word "technician". I have seen a person that could not draw a stick figure teach himself how to use an airbrush as his main tool and make thousands recreating murals on recreational vehicles. Not one simple brush stroke or design was original, all images were copied from post cards. He never claimed to be an artist or even signed his work. It was his customers that gave him that title. As long as he had people paying him he had work and that was all he wanted.

This story can be easily translate to leatherwork. Guy needs to earn money to pay bills. Guy visits a successful leather holster shop that cant keep up with the demand so Guy decides to start up a small home based leather shop. Guy starts building crappy holsters for his fist year but then gets the hang of this after investing in better equipment, material and holster patterns. Guy then has a decent product and soon word of mouth spreads on where to buy inexpensive holsters from a home based leatherworker. Guy doesn't make millions of dollars but enough to pay his bills. After all, that's all that Guy wanted. Guy is now a successful leatherworker. Happy ending, "right".

I am not a fan of Jackson Pollock's Drip Style Paintings and I don't believe he was the first to stumble upon this kind of abstract work. House painters have been dripping paint of various colors on cloth long before him but never thought of stretching it on a wooden frame and calling this Art. Pollack gained his recognition by being the first person to drip paint onto stretched canvas and push it as Art. He now had an ORIGINAL idea and that's the only reason HIS work hangs in museums today. For this I respect him. His drip painting style has been copied by many including amateurs and it would be very difficult to tell it apart from the originator. And "No", replicating his work would not make you an artist unless it was you that was the first to stumble upon this.

In using leather as a material to produce artwork. I believe one can still stumble across an idea or style to create something new that has never been done before. Then face the criticism that follows, does it move you or does it make you sick. That's why its called art or functional art.

So I guess I answered my own inner question that's been swirling inside my head. I am not an Artist and may never be. But I can learn to be a better leather technician (LT). Nothing wrong with that, its just the reality.

[JLSleather]

And there lies another question. I've known a few of those guys -- just a 'good eye', by nature (which i think is crowding the true definition of artist).

Guy down south had a sandwich truck - used to sell me awesome breakfast burritos made on the spot. Painted his truck, I think out of boredom. Next thing - he only does breakfast runs, because the rest of the day he paints. For a LOT more money than the truck was earning.

And, fella here in town wanted some advice on airbrushes - never used one, and had no idea what to look for. He showed me some pictures on his phone of charcoal drawings he did recently -- commission to draw the entire cast of 'sons of anarchy' tv show. Simple "rendering", they would be auctioned off to raise money for some charity. Like 8 drawings, brought roughly $500 each. Said they each took about half an hour. Total investment for materials under $5. I certainly couldn't do what he does. I could get there, but nowhere near as smooth and quickly as he does. Took a photograph of someone, and a charcoal stick, and a "wad" of toilet paper. 45 minutes later, there's a drawing on like 12" x 18" that looked like a black n white photograph -- AMAZING detail. Now, he had some reason he wanted to "try" using an airbrush.

Which brings us to the "medium" for the art. One guy with a truck he used daily anyway. One guy with a piece of paper. Both making far more money than most leather workers I know. Now, I personally work with leather because I LIKE leather.

Concerning money, I have made more money doing things OTHER than leather, and sometimes when I see / hear someone talking about 'making money' with their craft, I wonder why they chose leather. There certainly are other mediums with a wider profit margin.

[chriscraft]

I guess this topic is a question within a question or better yet, a discussion.

My Grandfather made leather goods and the people he made them for really appreciated the level of skill and craftsmanship he provided them. I admired his work up until I hit middle school Art class. We had a similar discussion about Artist and self proclaimed Artist. Soon after this changed the way I viewed Art in general. It really bummed me out once the "Commercial Artist" topic followed. I remember this being the reason I didn't want to pursue leatherwork anymore, I was only 13 years old. Its sad to recall this and to view leather items for only their simplex function and when decorated (tooled). Its just a waste of time. Although appreciated by some, not sought out by many.

While still in middle school I found my new interest in adding color to my drawings. Two years later I was introduced to the airbrush and I soon became one of the many who ran to the beaches making a living using it. It was the fastest way that I could apply color to a simple drawing to make it stand out. I didn't consider this Art as these were simple basic name designs that I could produce in a matter of minutes while you wait. The industry called us "Airbrush Artist" but I didn't see any art in it. Yes, I had many commissions to airbrush portraits and other time consuming images but in the end it was the easy $5-$12 fast t-shirt designs that paid my bills. It was a high that lasted 15 years till airbrushed t-shirts became tough to even give away during Spring Break.

I then resorted back to my roots of creating pencil/ink line drawings on paper as a hobby. Now I'm back at playing with leather trying to gain back the years I've lost. I have now found that if a leather product is well crafted using quality materials and will outlast the test of time. There is a market for such items as it always has been. I just couldn't see it back then.

So I guess it's a little of both, Art and Craft. In order to produce the time consuming original Art pieces one must Craft many smaller less expensive leather goods in order to make ends meat.

[DoubleC]

Chris, I have been thinking about this thread a lot. I have art, I mean actual pictures I free hand drew looking at another picture, and either painted them or dyed them and used antique. Antique is a leather medium just like any other and has it's time and place. I disagree with JLS that just because he doesn't use it, it ain't worth using. I understand how he feels because I feel a certain type of snobbery toward people who only do Sheridan carving. If you can't get good at placing a mules foot in the right spot of a flower, vine or leaf after doing the exact same thing over and over maybe leather isn't your medium. I think there's nothing wrong with using the 'paint by number' method of learning a craft if you move beyond it. I was in Sheridan and you sure don't see any roses, leaves and vines there. So I think a lot of people started this craft with kits. I wasn't fortunate enough to be able to do that, work at a Farmers Market where if you don't make it, bake it or grow it you don't bring it. So all of my things were designed by me, good or bad to begin with. I don't carve everything. I have a lot of custom orders and do one offs where I never really get to learn a certain technique that's used in the order. I have used inlay, overlay, paint, dye, antique, stamps, the basic 7, and a few other things. I have drawn art and braided art. I have some superb failures too. I use those I think the enemy of art is complacency. If you are always satisfied with whatever you churn out then I don't think you can be an artist. Can a craft person strive to be better each time? I don't know. Probably. I'm not sure being good at a craft isn't art. I don't know when we started seeing masons or contractors as less than artists. They have great items....they have superb failures. I live in Vermont which used to be a big marble industry state. I defy anyone to look at some of these churches and buildings around here and say they aren't art. Below are some of my art pieces. I apologize for the crappy pictures. Cheryl

[leatherwytch]

To me a crafter is someone who sits and makes coasters with letters on them or as JLS said a painted bracelet with snaps. An artist is someone who does actual artwork on it or makes it a piece of art. People who design shirts, jackets, bowls, clock etc., are artists. I am doing some designs where the pictures take a great deal of work. I work for hours drawing them until I get it just right then I will trace it onto leather because they are intricate. I believe there are so many different forms of art but it has to appeal to someone to be considered artwork. Therefore if the buyer believes it to be art then the person who did it is an artist.

[rawcustom]

I have to pass along one of my favorite similar sayings about the definition of a knife maker, 'someone with a well employed spouse'.

But yeah I get your point that simply throwing leather together is quite different than adding time to tooling, and finish work. Not sure how you get paid for it without simply working and gaining a name. There is a couple bigger "handmade" knife makers near where I live, and they are producing garbage compared to the majority of most of us others around here, yet somehow people know their name and don't notice the crude craftsmanship, the lack of detail work or the overpriced nature in comparison.

Only way I know for name recognition is time and money in advertising.

[chriscraft]

Cheryl, were these photos taken by you? This is another subject that also perplexed me on using reference photos. There is another Art in taking photographs, by simply aiming the camera in he right angle and using the right light/exposure, anyone can be an Artist so to speak.

I grew up looking at magazine photos and began drawing images off these free hand. I would spend hours rendering the image and when I was done I would sign my work. I did this when I was 5-6 years old and would share them with friends and family. Everyone thought I was an Artist and soon I began to believe it. By the time I was 10 y/o I enjoyed rendering muscle cars on paper as every boy likes cars, again from Hot Rod magazines. Every decal and car name badge detail was included. The local car enthusiast could tell the exact make , model and year of the cars I had drawn. This was my first time I began accepting cash ($5-$10)for drawings and I was hooked. Later during the school year one teacher requested if I could draw his muscle car that was parked in the teachers parking lot. He even provided me with a good quality sketch pad by the end of the week as I had been using plain copy machine thin weight paper. This was the first time I felt like an Artist, now armed with nice pencils and pad. I sat on the grass beside the 1968 Mercury Cougar Friday after school and began my sketch. It took me two sessions to complete the drawing and I finished the front end grill detail from photos he provided. It was then that my teacher called me an real Artist and told me to stop copying other photographer's magazine photos. To keep drawing directly from real life instead of pictures. That reference photos were fine to fill in detail as I had done. I was too young to understand and the coolest cars to draw were still in magazines so I continued. This helped me refine my eye for taking my own pictures later in life by copying hundreds of magazine images during my childhood.

Cheryl, thanks for posting your work. I will upload some of my leather craft pictures soon.

[DoubleC]

Good Chris, I am looking forward to seeing them. Yes unfortunately the pics were taken by me, but with my 8YO digital camera. The choker set was taken with my new one. I thought it was me that kept taking the bad pictures until I found out it didn't have enough MP to take a good picture. Oh well 8 years of frustration is good for you right? LOL. I can just about free hand any picture by looking at it but have no memory anymore for creating my own. I come up with an idea then go google searching for a piece I like. I am currently working on a pair of sandals with a dragon fly as the subject, but I am not gonna brag about that right now, LOL> Glad my foot will cover most of it. Maybe the second one will be better.......

[chriscraft]

Some of my cartoon style auto drawings. Excuse the glare as I just took these picture while the drawings were still in my portfolio. One is a pencil detailed sketch that I began drawing while looking at the truck at a car show then changed the layout making it climbing over boulders. So this drawing isn't real, its made up. All my classic muscle cars have been given away to friends and family throughout the years since age 10. I still get to see them when I visit but I don't own them anymore. I wish I would have hung on to those but I was such a push over back then. Its been about 8 years since I've drawn another automobile. Some day I will start drawing cars again. Chris

[DoubleC]

I'm a pushover with strangers, LOL much less family and friends. That's really nice work Chris. Cheryl

[chriscraft]

Being able to sketch cars doesn't make me an artist either. The common untrained eye wouldn't be able to see that I wasn't producing anything great. It was a great past time growing up and helped me develope artistic skills that I can use today. Besides I was far from getting paid generous amounts for my auto drawings so it would of placed me in the "starving artist" category. Later as an adult rather than accepting the small $25 amount I would prefer to just give them away as this would make me feel better.

Just like JLS's old McDonald comparison, my hand drawings are the same. Just basic shading with lines here and there. Arrange them a certain way to resemble something and it may even look nice. Finished by placing it in a nice frame with mat and the drawing looks sharp.

So many different opinions on what one considers Art. Thanks for everyone's comments to help clarify this subject.

[DoubleC]

If Dali hadn't known where to place a line or where to shade I doubt he would have been so successful. I don't 'get' his art and daddy issuse but his art makes my eyes happy, LOL.

[oldhat]

Hey double c , you just reminded me of when i was a teenager i used to have some salvador Dali posters on my bedroom wall, come to think about it now i might have been a wierd teenager as all my mates had pin up girls on their walls, oh well nothing wrong with being a bit wierd i guess. In fact most artists are a bit wierd so what the hell.

[DoubleC]

Glad you remembered it. I would say he's a tad weird, or was I guess but he wasn't boring. Maybe an artist is someone battling boredom?

[chriscraft]

To me a crafter is someone who sits and makes coasters with letters on them or as JLS said a painted bracelet with snaps. An artist is someone who does actual artwork on it or makes it a piece of art.

So if a person were to just purchase patterns and all the tools one needs to make a leather item. Then learn the skills it would take to properly hand craft and assemble these items, this would make him/her a crafter. Then what is an Artisan?

What is a "Maker"? Does one become a Maker by simply placing a "Makers mark" stamp on your craft items? I have seen many basic good quality holsters made from patterns with a nice makers marks stamped on them.

I would like to understand what this "Makers" stamp represents as I started using one simply to identify the items I am making. If the stamp represents a higher level of skill that I have not learned or earned yet then I will stop using it.

[Studio-N]

I think this qualifies. Yes, that's leather. (made me give up hope of ever doing anything great LOL)

[Reegesc]

@ Chriscraft -- you had it right the first time, you worm can opener you. ;-)

[JLSleather]

Does one become a Maker by simply placing a "Makers mark" stamp on your craft items? I have seen many basic good quality holsters made from patterns with a nice makers marks stamped on them.

I would like to understand what this "Makers" stamp represents

I don't think I would go by that. I've seen some really -- well . let's say 'less than wonderful' - stuff with a "maker" mark on it. I've seen (here) numerous "makers" who had purchased a custom "mark", despite skills that were. ... ughh.. you know what -- never mind.

Now, if we're going strictly by facts, maybe somebody could point out where I said ANYTHING about snaps?