Adler 267 - Engine Question And Vs Fomax Ws 1335

[276ccm]

I´m in Spain and I´m maybe about to buy a Adler 267 class GK 373

Would that be a good machine to use both for relatively light leather work and some normal upholstery work?

When I say light leather work, I think I normally would sew maximum two layers of 4 mm veg tanned leather.. I guess it depends of the engine too, but is it a good machine to use for leather?

As far as I can see for this machine, it has a clutch engine without needle position, and I think I want to replace the engine to a servo engine, with needle position, so the most important question: does anyone know anywhere in Europe they sell powerful engines with needle position, that would fit a Adler 267? And is it easy to replace the ending and attache the needle position?

As for the second question, I´m also offered a Fomax SW 1335 (which looks like a copy of Pfaff 335)

as for the things I´m going to sew, I prefer the cylinder arm machine, but how would you think the Fomax (Pfaff 335) is compared to the Adler 267?

Anyone got any thoughts of this? Posting some pictures of the Adler and one of the Fomax I´m offered:

Adler:

Fomax

Thanks in advance! :-)

Edited July 30, 2015 by 276ccm

[276ccm]

Ops i wrote 276 in the subject, of course I ment 267 :-)

Fixed it for you.

Edited July 30, 2015 by northmount

[Uwe]

Out of the two machines you're considering, I think the Adler is more desirable because it's an original as opposed to a clone, likely to retain its value better and allow you to sew thicker materials and user thicker threads. That Adler looks like it's in super nice condition!

The Pfaff 335 clones will be more versatile for getting into tight spots on bags etc. Clones in general are more risky in terms of quality, longevity and value retention. The 335 clones don't have a drop bottom feed, the feed dogs moves back and forth, but it does not lower or raise as it moves (except for one subclass, which I doubt was ever cloned.)

Both machines will work fine a with a servo motor with positioner capability. A speed reducer will translate excess speed into punching power and will make almost any motor powerful enough for both machines. In Europe, Sieck.de and College-sewing.co.uk keep coming up as good resource for sewing parts. I saw a nice Efka positioning motor in German eBay(http://www.ebay.de/itm/Efka-Variostop-380-V-Industrienahmaschinen-Motor-/201397421450?hash=item2ee438c58a)

Local Oslo member Tor (user name Trox) has a vast knowledge and experience in all things sewing machines and has some very cool variable frequency speed control setups ( not sure if they are position sensor capable).

[DrmCa]

I am almost 100% sure that you will not be able to stitch a total of 8mm veg tan on a clone of Pfaff 335.

[276ccm]

Thanks a lot for reply! I have also talked with Trox :-)

The Adler looks like in mint condition, and I will test it tomorrow.. and the Fomax is forgotten. I would prefer a cylinder arm machine, but I think this might be a good start! :-)

Thanks again! :-)

[276ccm]

Hola again! :-)

I´m going to look at the Adler machine today.. and I have been thinking of either of these two machines:

https://www.college-sewing.co.uk/JK-561A-1-220V-750W-1-HP-SERVO-MOTOR-WITH-NEEDLE-POSITION for 130 BP. This one got 1 HP and are 750 Watt

or this one:

https://www.college-sewing.co.uk/SV71-650-WATT-220V-0.87-HP-SERVO-MOTOR-WITH-NEEDLE-POSITION for 168 BP. This one has 0,87 HP and are 650 Watt.

Could anyone say anything about what the advantage of buying the more expensive? Does the 0,13 HP less have any big impact on how strong it will be for heavier leather?

Both motors has needle position, but would it be any different on how accurate the needle position will be?

Anyone got any suggestion for this?

Marius :-)

[Uwe]

Hola Marius,

The topic of servo motor variations and relative benefits deserves its own topic. From my personal experience here's what I found:

There's only a handful of variations on these motors that seemingly come out of even fewer factories in China. All of them benefit from installing the smaller pulley (50mm) if you want to sew slow and leather. All of them can be combined with a speed reducer which will make them powerful enough to deal with your machine and leather.

Some motors have optical sensors to translate pedal movement to speed, others have a magnetic sensor. I think the jk model has a magnetic sensor because it looks identical to my Consew branded motor. The optical sensors can be easily modified to improve pedal response - many post on that topic on YouTube and this website. No such modification is possible with magnetic sensors to my knowledge and pedal response is just okay but not great on my Consew motor.

The build quality and materials vary, from plastic mounting brackets to cast aluminum parts. The JK version appears to the cast aluminum version, the ISM version appears to be plastic.

The needle positioning should be accurate enough on either of them if you adjust/set the hand wheel position correctly.

I tried two different servo motors with needle positioning and didn't like either of them, mainly because I set my sewing speed very slow at about a stitch per second and the needle positioning happens at normal speed. This means as I sew slowly and let go of the pedal, the motor speeds up to move the needle to next target needle position very quickly. I could not get used to the motor speeding up when I let go of the pedal and removed the needle position sensor. Personally I prefer to have good, gradual speed control at the low end and the motor to just stop exactly when I let go of the pedal.

Reporting live from Hurtigruten ship MS Lofoten in the Norwegian Fjords . . .

[276ccm]

Thanks a lot for your info and personal view Uwe! :-) I´ll do some more searches and probably come up with some more questions.. I ended up buying the Adler 267 as it really looked like mint condition from what I could see and test. And Trox gave me some very useful advises to what to look for, so now I have to start the search for the "perfect" motor! :-)

Enjoy Hurtigruten, it´s a really beautiful trip, but dont spend all the money in one place, Norway is expensive, but I guess you already experienced that hehe :-)

Edited August 4, 2015 by 276ccm

[DrmCa]

If by "needle position" they mean every time you take your foot off the pedal and stop the motor, it will raise the needle to the TDC, then I would be careful.

This is a great feature for sewing knit textiles on a coverstitch machine with automatic thread trimmer, but for making turns on leather you want the needle to stay down.

With my "dumb" motor the needle is down in 50% cases and in other 50% cases I just give it a little more kick or turn the wheel by hand to lower the needle into leather and make a turn.

See maybe you can set up those motors to leave the needle always down, maybe they can do that too. The seller should be able to tell you if that is possible.

[276ccm]

With needle position, I mean that the needle always stops in the same position as I started.. and I always starts with the needle down, so in this case it means that the needle always will stop down. I've had this feature on my other machine, and the machine we had at work, and I think it's so much easier to work with.

People say that a speed reduced and a needle position is not a good combination, tho.. But I was hoping the servo motor was giving me the option to sew more slow than the old clutch motor that is attached.

[Uwe]

The needle positioning systems on these cheap servo motors mostly work by installing the sensor on the hand wheel ( easy or hard, depending on your machine). The sensor has a switch that activates when the hand wheel is in a certain position. During setup you turn the hand wheel in the desired position (usually needle down), then turn the sensor until the switch activates and the little light comes on, then tighten the set screw. The programming unit now knows which position is the down position and will stop in that position when you let go of the pedal. The programming unit usually allows you to switch between stopping in either needle up or down position with a few button presses. However, it does NOT stop wherever you start. Some systems also have the "heel" feature which gives you an additional half turn when you tilt the pedal backwards with your heel, making both up and down needle positions easily accessible. It's not so easy to turn the needle positioning OFF on the systems I have tried. I wish they had a simple three-way switch like my old Viking has (up/off/down), but unfortunately they generally use button presses to navigate a cryptic, crude menu with no OFF option. On my motors I had to unplug the sensor to turn needle positioning off.

Much of the above probably does not apply to fancy setups like Efka systems etc.

[276ccm]

Thanks for replies! :-) I got my machine today, and I think it looks good!

Now I just have to decide if I´ll go for the JK, ISM or the Ho Hsing G60 motor I´m awaiting prices for. I found a company in Spain and one in France that sells them.

I tested the machine today, and it works fine, but as I expected the stick length isn't really large, 6 mm at the maximum, but I´m happy with my machine so far! :-)

[Trox]

Hi Marius, although the Flomax 335 clone is a versatile machine, they would not preform well with any thicker thread than than Nm 40 (tex 69). Perhaps a size heavier on top, but the small bobbin will not take much of it. There are versions of the new Pfaff 335 that have a larger hook and perhaps some clones do too.

Motors,

I was offered the same motor as Uwe found on Ebay for free the other day. The Efka variostop is from the 1980 (and up). It's a three Phase clutch motor (380 V) with needle position, electronic clutch and brake. It has 6 to 12 pre set speeds on the pedal depended of model and was the first of its kind. Marius, you know these motors, you had the same on your 45K machine. We set that motor up with an frequency converter and it sewed just fine. I think the motor I was offered for free is still available if anybody needs it. It's in good condition but the location is Oslo, Norway (pickup only). Anyway, 200 Euro it way too expensive for that old motor.

If you can buy a Ho Hsing G 60 serie 600 watt servo motor for £ 160.-, then you will have a professional motor for a good price. It has a needle position that works as it should do, and they say the low speed control are very good. That's a plain motor with needle position only, but you can add a Ho Hsing control box to it later. I did not know that was a possibility before I saw it yesterday on their YouTube channel. That means you can build on anything you want to it, just like their more expensive motor systems. That option is a game changer, for sure. Ho Hsing make top motors and are a alternative to Efka. A Japanese motor with a price that can compete with Chinese motors, that sound good to me. I have a friend that bought one for his Pfaff 345 cylinder bed, and he says it preforms well.

Let us know what you decide to do.

Tor

[276ccm]

Just to follow up, I ended up with the Ho Hsing G60 motor with he needle position. I found a company in UK (AE Sewing Machines) which had the motor for a very good price. The shipping was super fast and service simply amazing. They replied very quick to all my questions..

I´m super happy with the motor, it seems to be strong and was really easy to set up. The needle position works exactly like I´m used to with my previous machines.. easy to adjust too. I feel I have fill control with the machine now..

So I can strongly recommend the Ho Hsing motor..

Thanks a lot for all replies and to Trox for your expert knowledge! :-)

A little shot of my machine with the new motor :-)

[Uwe]

That is one beautiful looking machine - congratulation on finding such a pristine example! Nice setup with the new servo motor!

[Colt W Knight]

Youll be able to get some sewing done on that machine, for sure.

[DrmCa]

Good to know! I may be in the market for a servo for my Juki DDL 553 soon, and this is a good option to have.

Happy stitching, 276ccm!