Considering Changing Belt Crafting Sequence. Thoughts And Critique Please?

[Tallbald]

I've been making holsters for several years now, and have expanded to belts and strap goods at the request of some customers and a gun shop.

I've read much and watched lots of educational videos.

Materials and sequence now:

1)I'm using two layer laminated 7-8 ounce Hermann Oak veg tanned. Cut straps myself. Need belts to be about 1/4 inch finished thickness.

2)Edge trim, sand edge, dye with Fiebings oil dye thinned with denatured alcohol, wipe down with terry cloth.

3)Nylon thread sewn on machine 6 stitches per inch.

4) Burnish edges with gum trag.

5)Lastly, apply several coats Lexol Leather Conditioner,dry well, brush on two coats Resolene. Assemble belt with keeper and buckle.

Troubles encountered sometimes.

1) bleeding of dye residue onto white thread when applying Lexol or Resolene, despite wipe down of leather after dye is dried.

2) occasional stress crack on leather surface at outer face of leather bend for buckle tongue.

I believe that I will have to begin skiving or sanding to thin the inside of buckle tongue bend before dyeing and finishing to positively prevent any stress crack at bend.

I am considering trying completely finishing belt including Lexol and Resolene BEFORE stitching belts. Thinking this would keep threads brighter.

Am I missing something? I don't pretend to know lots of answers. I do though ask and learn so I can better myself and my techniques.

Thanks. Don.

Edited August 13, 2015 by Tallbald

[mlapaglia]

"Several coats of Lexol"???? define several? This could be part of your problem. Have you tried Fieblings Spirt dyes instead?? Are you wiping the dye until it no longer comes off when you wipe it down? This is before the Lexol.

I skive a little right at the fold on a belt. I bend it when its damp so it leaves a nice bend.

Are you cutting the Resolene 50/50 with water? If its cracking its going on too thick. Cutting it with water helps it not be too thick.

I sew my belts only after everything but the final finish is done. i.e. right before the resolene.

Michael

[Tallbald]

Usually two Lexol coats is plenty on mine. I dip dye then dry, and wipe down well with a terry cloth rag. I do cut the Resolene 50/50 with water. It's the surface of the leather that's cracking at times though, right at the outside of the buckle bend where the stretching is greatest because of the volume of the inner laminate layer. I believe sanding (with a small drum sander) on the inside of the bend to a little more than one layer thickness would correct the issue. Easier for me than razor skiving because of arthritis in hands.

So you apply Resolene over the stitches I see?

You said you bend when damp. Damp with dye or damp with NFO or Lexol or other moisturizer?

I still wonder what would happen if I did all finishing, including Resolene before sewing. I think there would be no dulling or risk of discoloration to the thread.

Thanks Don.

Edited August 13, 2015 by Tallbald

[mlapaglia]

Damp with water. Usually if the belt is being tooled I bend the chape (buckle end) while the leather is still cased. If its not tooled than I normally wet the belt down so its basically cased and make the bend for the buckle. I never just dampen the chape and that tends to make water stains. Damp leather will stretch and not crack. I also let it dry in the folded position.

YMMV, its how I do it and have no problem with cracking the leather.

Yes I apply the resolene over the stitches. never had a problem I do not use an oil dye so I really do not have a bleed issue. For black which really bleeds I use vinegaroon so there is no bleed.

Michael

[Dwight]

My process:

Cut the straps..........rough cut both ends.........contact cement them together.

Sand edges, . . . run edger around all the way . . . do the stitch groove thing on both sides

Burnish edges on electric motor burnisher

Sew, . . . dip dye, . . . let dry, . . . burnish, burnish, burnish, . . . did I mention burnish???

Burnish edges again, . . . resolene, . . . let dry.

Add buckle, . . . keeper, . . . do final inspection.

Send or take to customer.

I don't have any complaints on my belts, . . . got one repeat customer order pending right now.

May God bless,

Dwight

[JLSleather]

Congratulations on your progress, and finding a gun shop you can work with -- awesome!

I would suggest - though I'm guessing you're already finding --- that a guy curb how much time you spend on videos. I don't know the numbers exactly, but the majority of time in those "leathercraft" videos is spent proving that the video guy should have stuck to what he knows... making videos! Just a light humor, but you'll see what I mean soon enough.

I don't think your 'process' is all that broken. Couple things to mention, but I've been at it a while and I can tell you, there's more than one way to skin a cow. We don't have to take the exact same route to get to the same place.

I'm not one who subscribes to the 1/4" thick belt club. I have made them, and if that's what your customers are asking for then by all means. Mine are generally more like 3/16 -ish. 7/8 with a 3/4 liner, or occasional double-6 oz. Again, up to the customer.

As for the problems you mention, those are easy fixes.

→ Truth is, if your dye is bleeding, then it isn't as dry as you thought -wait another day.

→ Your leather should be at least damp before making a sharp fold. I actually include a note with rifle slings (and other things where the strap is adjustable) NOT to put a sharp fold in dry leather (and how to avoid doing that).

As for thread getting discolored, I've done that a number of ways. On projects where I want the thread unchanged, just make sure the dye is dry. Once dry, I've never had oil dyes "bleed". On other projects, I WANT the thread to take the dye, so plan accordingly.

I'll dig out a couple pictures showing the different looks, but that's all it is.. just another look!

[Tallbald]

I appreciate all this input. Dwight I dip dye as you once discussed with me. JLS I guess as you've mentioned, the dye wasn't as dry as I thought. I will from now on give my straps and belts an extra 24-48 hours drying time. There's just no way to rush that. I do prefer the thread color to remain unchanged and brilliant, so my dying always takes place before sewing operations.

As a side note, and referencing another thread I posted in the "Leather Sewing Machine" section, I've found that the dyed leather is stiff enough that when I sew close to an edge, the leather does not flex downward with the touch of the needle tip and cause the stitch to come out the side of the project underneath. Using a new, very sharp needle also helps prevent that. Anyway, I want to develop a sequence of work that integrates sewing while the leather is stiff.

I ask forgiveness at this time for my dwelling on sequences. I'm both a retired RN and retired Tool and Die maker used to operating in specific sequences of action to reach a goal.

Has anyone following this thread ever tried sewing as the last operation in the crafting sequence and sewn after the Resolene (or other final finish) has been done? As in my past careers I learned from reading, studying and asking here.

Thanks Don

[JLSleather]

I have other images of this type of thing, but since you specifically talked about belts, I tried to find pics showing belts. One day, I really must do some cleaning and organize my images better ...

Top layer and billets dyed Fiebing's Oil Black and Neatsfoot (24 hours in between and 24 hours after oil), then buff to shine. Glue natural (undyed) liner, edge stitch, burnish edges, and apply finish.

Same approach as above, just different thread and look

Leather (H.O. 7/8 oz) is tooled and allowed to dry overnight. Apply oil and dry overnight. Apply stain over all. When dry (later same day is fine) machine stitched white.

Drum-dyed leather (Wickett&Craig brown skirting) is glued and stitched with complementary thread color, buffed, and finish applied.

Holster and belt are both cut out, glued and stitched with natural color thread. Holster is formed and allowed to dry overnight. Base color (saddle tan) applied over entire article - both sides of holster, only the outside of belt. All edges rounded and dyed (fiebing's chocolate) with a wool dauber before burnishing. Lightly buff after a few hours, and spray fiebing's chocolate for that sensitive look (hey, that's what he wanted). This is done SO THE THREAD WILL COLOR along with the leather.

[JLSleather]

Toolmaker AND an RN? Cool... you can put in your own stitches when the die gets you!

[mlapaglia]

I have twice stitched the thread in after the final finish. I did not see a real difference in the look. I did think that I prefer the thread to get the final finish applied to it also. Im not sure its a big deal either way.

[Tallbald]

Thanks again all. Yes, JLS retired from both careers. Life took some odd turns after my dad passed away when I was twenty back in in the 70's. College for one and an apprenticeship for the other. Don.

[RobDude30]

I hand stitch everything visible in my finished work and almost always use a contrasting color thread, so I like to keep my thread clean as well. I use Resolene as a final finish nearly exclusively. My stitching is always done next to last. After dying, I buff, buff, buff as usual, then apply a couple light coats of Resolene with drying time in between. I put on enough coats until I have no more transfer of color into the sponge that use to apply the Resolene. Usually two gets the job done. I stitch, then apply one final light coat of Resolene just to seal the holes made when stitching. YMMV

[Tallbald]

Rob and everyone else thank you all for generously sharing thoughts. I think I shall try once as RobDude 30 has done, stitching over the Resolene (hope I understood right) then a light final Resolene coat to seal the thread holes. SO much to learn and enjoy, so little time. Don.