Awls, Harness Needles, And Threads

[kjcreamer]

Newbie here in need of clarification/direction. I've read lots and lots and lots of stuff about Tiger thread (and like everyone else in the world watched Ian A. and Nigel A. use it on their videos). It seems like it's hard to find in US without buying short lengths for a huge mark-up. So if I don't bother with Tiger thread, what else should I get to use with saddle stitching by hand (no machine). I currently use the Tandy waxed nylon thread they said I should buy to start with. This is what I have: https://www.tandyleather.com/en-usd/search/searchresults/1227-02.aspx . It appears to have three small threads to form the main thread. It's been okay as my starter thread (I have in all three amazing colors - white, black, and brown) but now that I'm better at stitching, I'm ready to get some better stuff next time. What I like about it - prewaxed is easy and I'm fearful of my ability to know how much wax to apply if I get unwaxed. What I don't like about it - seems sort of thick for what I'm making which have been journal covers (these projects really show how much my stitching is improving though , pouches, some not-so-great wallets, basic beginner stuff, nothing heavy duty like sheaths. I'm also wondering if I'm doing something wrong, I'm being picky, or it's just the thread but it seems sort of "furry" after stitching. Definitely not frayed or anything, but I thought the wax would keep it "neater" and less feathery. How do you know how thick thread is? I've read there are different thoughts on linen vs. nylon.

So if someone recommends a good thread, what harness needles to use with it? I am soooo confused with the harness needle numbering system. I've gathered that I should get John James which I know SLC carries. Seems JJ needles will do an adequate job and I think the prices are okay for my budget. Some places say UK sizing of JJ needles are different from US. I understand that I should use the smallest needle that I can, but isn't that dependent on the thread (which as I said above I don't know how to determine its thickness/weight/or whatever is the correct term for it)? So how do I "match" them? I have to mail order it sight unseen. http://springfieldleather.com/20059/Needle%2CHarness%2C%2200%22Med%2C5pk/

Finally, I can't believe what sharpening my awl did for me!! I'm sure I didn't even do it "right" or as long as I should have. I watched the Nigel A. video on sharpening. Since I don't have sharpening stones, I bought a variety pack of fine wet/dry sandpaper (400,800,1000,1200 grits). I used it dry since I thought adding sharpening oil would leave residue on the leather even after wiping. I finished by stropping with the jewelers' rouge that came with my starter Tandy set. So I have two questions here about awls. First, is there an affordable sharpening stone set for awls or should I stick with sandpaper for now? I'm grinning at the idea that my awl could be even better with the right tools. Seems like I can find lots of stuff for sharpening swivel knife blades but not the diamond shaped awl. Second, how does the awl size work with the needle/thread size choices? [As a side note, I wanted to order from SLC an Osbourne haft (there are 3 choices - which one? http://springfieldleather.com/24630/Awl%2CHaft%2CPalm/) and Osbourne blade (a bunch of sizes - which one? http://springfieldleather.com/16526/Blade%2CAwl%2CHarness%2C1-3-4%22/) to use as my primary awl and use the somewhat sharpened Tandy awl as my backup so if I'm getting new thread and needles, this is a good time to get a coordinating awl set-up.]

And just in case this makes any impact on the advice above, I am using Tandy's Pro Line Diamond Stitching Chisels (I have 2mm in 2 and 4 prong versions and 3mm in 2 and 4 prong versions https://www.tandyleather.com/en-usd/search/searchresults/88044-02.aspx). I pound in the chisel but not all the way through all the layers of leather. I use the awl to open one hole at a time and stitch. I'm slow but following my Al Stohlman book instructions (Don't put the awl down between stitches

So I guess I'm assuming thread steers the size decisions for all the other things, but maybe I have that backwards.

I know this is a really long post but I wanted to provide as much information as possible to hopefully help someone help me. This is my first post and I want to say thank you for all of you that have been posting such great information that I've been reading. Whenever I jump on the forum, it's like I get to go to a really awesome leather "class" anytime I want.

[thefanninator]

Try the Irish linen thread at Royalwood.

http://www.royalwoodltd.com/cat14-17ar.htm

Later try the French linen thread Fil au Chinois at Fine Leather Working. They also have John James needles and Blanchard tools.

[DavidL]

I like the shapton waterstone 1000 grit (japanese rating somewhere near 400-600 grit). 30 ish dollars from leathercrafttools.com. I sharpen my awl on the side of the stone or the bottom. The stone never dulls like a regular home depot stone does, it sheds the grits and fresh grits will be on the surface. You do need to flatten the stone with something like a DMT extra extra coarse or atoma 140 or carbide grits on glass. The DMT diamond stones by itself is good too since (I have the coarse) it will always be flat w/ no maintenance unlike waterstones.

[Art]

Good advice from all. Get an Barry King awl haft at Lekoza, nice medium handle, much easier to push. Size zero or 2 JJ needles for 1mm thread. If you have to use pliers, get a smaller needle or bigger awl. Once you use oil on a natural stone, keep using it. If you have diamond stones or new natural stones you can use a 50/50 mix of water and Simple Green, we use it for everything but the Tormek and the Makita, just plain water on those. Water Stones, use water only.

Art

[Oldtoolsniper]

Learning to sharpen is 3/4's of the battle on sharpening.

I own the tormek, work sharp,veritas, twice as sharp, Japanese Waterstones, ceramic stones, natural Arkansas stones, diamond stones, paper wheels, leather wheels, belt sanders and some other fancy things for making things sharp. I use sandpaper on glass or glued to MDF the most. It's like using a disposable razor compared to a straight razor.

Hone your skills with sandpaper and get good quality equipment as your needs and skills improve. Learning how to sharpen will show you what you need to sharpen. Get a good set of magnified eyeballs so you can see the edge, as the picture I've included shows, I can't see that very good without magnification. The edge is magnified x21. I can clearly see that's not sharp and why.

Sandpaper goes all the way to micro finish film. (Lee Valley tools) it will take you to hair splitting sharp with out learning how to maintain the sharpening tool itself.

[Nuttish]

Later try the French linen thread Fil au Chinois at Fine Leather Working. They also have John James needles and Blanchard tools.

Fine Leather Working overcharges for Sajou thread. It's available elsewhere for nearly 10% less with cheaper shipping.

[thefanninator]

Fine Leather Working overcharges for Sajou thread. It's available elsewhere for nearly 10% less with cheaper shipping.

You're right. Rocky Mountain Leather Supply also sells it.

http://www.rmleathersupply.com/collections/all

I've bought from both.

But FLW has an awesome blog. Let's keep'em both around. Competition is good for us.

Edited August 20, 2015 by thefanninator

[kjcreamer]

This is fantastic! Thank you for this feedback. I checked out all the thread options and read more from fine leather.com. I didn't know about some of those sites. I had just looked at Tandy and SLC. I feel like I have more direction now. I also picked up a Valerie Michael leather book from my library. It's good to know I can work with sandpaper for the time being. It takes time for you experienced people to respond to beginners questions so I thank you all.

[dikman]

The wet and dry paper (NOT sandpaper) works better, in my experience, when used wet (as in water, not oil). The water floats off the gunk, and using it wet also tends to polish the metal. Use it on a sheet of glass, if you can, as this will give a nice flat working surface.

[Oldtoolsniper]

The wet and dry paper (NOT sandpaper) works better, in my experience, when used wet (as in water, not oil). The water floats off the gunk, and using it wet also tends to polish the metal. Use it on a sheet of glass, if you can, as this will give a nice flat working surface.

Yes, I apologize for not specifying that. Wet/dry not the regular stuff. If you look up the work sharp 3000 you will see that entire system is designed around sandpaper. Google "Scary Sharp" it will answer a lot of questions on the sand paper method.

You can get finer grits of wet dry on eBay and locally at any place that sells automotive finishes.

[kjcreamer]

Art, the Barry King awl in the link you sent looks beautiful. Will it fit other awl blades? There isn't much description with the item on the site. Also I have small girl hands. Would this medium size you recommended still be appropriate? I like the idea of a flat haft to help placement. Someone also recommended the "stinger awl" from leather burnishers.com. Any thoughts?

[johnv474]

Here is a suggested combination, which can be adjusted to meet your needs/preference: Maine Thread (waxed polyester) 0.030 thickness, CS Osborne #3 harness needles, Tandy preinserted awl/haft or CS Osborne haft/awl #43 preinserted, stitching at 6-8 spi. Here is an example of that combination at 7spi, following Nigel Armitage's videos for technique.

Here is a suggested combination, which can be adjusted to meet your needs/preference: Maine Thread (waxed polyester) 0.030 thickness, CS Osborne #3 harness needles, Tandy preinserted awl/haft or CS Osborne haft/awl #43 preinserted, stitching at 6-8 spi. Here is an example of that combination at 7spi, following Nigel Armitage's videos for technique.

[Art]

Art, the Barry King awl in the link you sent looks beautiful. Will it fit other awl blades? There isn't much description with the item on the site. Also I have small girl hands. Would this medium size you recommended still be appropriate? I like the idea of a flat haft to help placement. Someone also recommended the "stinger awl" from leather burnishers.com. Any thoughts?

KJ,

I like the BK awl haft as opposed to the stinger type. My hands are on the large side (9" span, 4"hand) and the medium is ok to a little small for me. I prefer the flat sided handle and I use the flat side for the contour of my thumb. The haft has 2 inserts that have different sizes on each end, so four different awl collet sizes. It'll fit practically anything.

Art

[kjcreamer]

Update to anyone following this thread.I ended up with Barry King small flat haft. I emailed them and explained I have small hands and that's what they recommended. I also got the smallest awl blade they have (1 1/2"). Beautiful partnership. The BK awl comes with 2 double sided collets which allows you to use 4 different size blades (probably any manufacturer around would fit into one of the colletts, just as Art pointed out). Solid metal; not flimsy. I intended to sharpen the blade when it arrived bc everyone says nothing is sharp when you get it but I have to tell you it's plenty sharp for me; sliced right through the leather. I managed to stab my hand with the blade. It made this tiny hole but went right in deep. So sharp I didn't even feel it until I realized I dripped some blood on the floor.

I also ordered a Bob Douglas slim awl blade which fits in the BK haft just fine as everyone suggested. Slices great through the second layer of leather that I marked with my pricking irons. And while I like the blade, it is 2 1/2" so when I add that to the BK haft the whole set up is a little too long for me to maneuver. It's not just wood length, but the collett adds length too. I can't imagine that too many people would run into this problem unless you're a female with small hands but I thought it worth mentioning. I hope it's not blasphemous, but I ended up using my Dremel to take off 1/2" of blade and put it in my old Tandy haft and that little difference (Tandy haft is a little shorter than BK haft) makes a huge difference. So now I have a primary awl set up with BK haft and blade and a lovely Bob Douglas blade/Tandy haft as a second choice.

I have a selection of JJ needles but have primarily been using the #2 with the very last of my Tandy thread and some .08 Tiger Thread I got just a few small lengths from Rocky Mountain Leather. I had to see what everyone is talking about While I like the Tiger, it seems a little "meshy" to me but it was great to sew with. Not too waxy. On the other hand, I took theinfannator's advice from early in this thread to check out Royalwood Irish Linen thread. I ordered their sample card with the selection of colors and plys they have available. It was $2 and no postage. It came in less than a week and it was totally worth two bucks for me to see the real colors and how thick the different ply thread is. This is more what I was imagining when I started sewing. I will be ordering the 4 ply this week.

johnv474, I will check out the Maine thread next. Thanks.

As for the sharpening, I will be looking further into that in the coming months. I plan to watch some videos. I have no experience at all in even sharpening an ordinary kitchen knife. I plan to practice sharpening on my old Tandy awl blade so I don't kill my 2 new blades while I learn. I can tell there are some seriously knowledgeable people out there that know a lot about sharpening so I'll read those threads and ask questions as they arise.

[JLSleather]

See, not ya go m' attention. I remember when you could order tools, showed up so sharp you didn't ,know you were cut 'til ya seen the drops on the floor! Man, that was a while back. I just got a osborne edger -- just junk. ANYWAY, I'd likely do more hand stitching if I could get tools worth using.

[zuludog]

kjcreamer - there are loads of videos, & previous threads about sharpening on this forum and YouTube, just work your way through them

IMO one of the best is this video on YouTube 'preparing and sharpening a woodworking chisel' by Paul Sellers

Although it's on chisels, the techniques can easily be used on leatherwork tools

Also good is lb knives video on sharpening an edge beveller

By all means get oil-; water-; or diamond - stones but beware that you may well end up spending some serious money. Ask around, you may already have something knocking about within your family

A cheaper method is to tape down some wet & dry paper onto a glass sheet or marble slab or similar. I use the glass oven door salvaged from an old cooker. The paper won't last for ever but it will be good enough to start with. Put a wet rag under the glass to stop the whole affair sliding around

You can make your own strop from almost any piece of scrap wood & leather. Again there are threads & videos. For a polishing compound you can use Autosol car polish, chromium dioxide compound, jeweller's rouge or fine valve grinding paste

This video on YouTube is useful. Again, it's not specifically about leatherwork tools, but the techniques and information are good

'sharpening spoon knives' by rebelbodger

Edited September 16, 2015 by zuludog

[johnv474]

Along with Al Stohlman's book on hand sewing leather, there is another book he wrote called "Leathercraft Tools: How to Use Them, How to Sharpen Them" or something similar. It's not particularly expensive, but he has some good tips on how to sharpen some of the odd-shaped tools.

[JLSleather]

As a former tool & die maker, I can probably figure out sharpening steel Point is, a guy shouldn't have to sharpen a tool he hasn't used yet!