Sewing Through Leather And Plywood

[ratty]

I am new to sewing and have just purchased a singer 111g155. I want to make a couple of door cards for a vintage MG Td car,these are made from 1.5mm chrome leather sewn onto 4mm thick plywood. My question is :- do you think the singer 111g155 is man enough to sew through the plywood and also what size of needle and thread would you use? I am thinking of either installing a speed reducer to the clutch motor or machining up a much larger custom flywheel for the machine. I have asked numerous dealers about this and they all say that i need a singer 132k6; but i only need to make two door cards and the rest of the time i will be making seat covers,so i thought the singer 111g155 would be a better overall machine?

Your thoughts and comments will be appreciated

[Uwe]

I highly doubt a Singer 111 will sew through 4mm of plywood. If it does, not for long.

Consider sewing the panel leather material to a softer support material (thin gatorfoam or cardboard etc.) and then glueing the whole affair to the plywood, wrapping the edges. It'l still look it's been sewn right through and be just as durable and rigid in my mind.

The only machines I know of that are designed to sew through plywood and similar materials for suitcase, prosthetics and similar applications, are certain Needle & Awl machines. My Puritan advertises being able to sew through plywood and aluminum sheets, and the promo video of the Campbell Lockstitch machines sews right through a copper penny at the one-minute mark. Of course some of these machines may cost more than an old MG car.

If you have access to a laser cutter, consider cutting the plywood door panel shape including the stitch holes along the edges right on the laser cutter. I've made templates for hand stitching that way. Then you can just hand sew the leather to the plywood using the pre-cut stitch holes.

Edited November 21, 2015 by Uwe

[Art]

My beater 441 (it is a Highlead) will do it, ditto of course the Campbell, but let's face it, we're talking an "18 oz" luan sandwich on a machine (111) on which 18 oz leather is a practical maximum. I've went heavier, at the expense of a few needles. One of the problems is that the torsion you can apply to that big panel will bend the needle to the point of a needle strike. Practicality says sew a fake border and glue to the panel; you'd probably glue anyway. It will look great.

Art

[Uwe]

After searching for "sewing plywood" on youtube, there's a guy sewing plywood on his Pfaff 545, which is essentially identical to the Singer 111. So, depending on how precious your Singer 111 is to you, go for it!

Edited November 21, 2015 by Uwe

[Uwe]

I just had to try it, I'm like a little boy who can't resist a dare!

I carefully turned the wheel by hand and my Consew 225 (twin to a Singer 111) actually sewed 1/8" (3mm) plywood wrapped in 5oz (2mm) oil tan leather without skipping stitch. Who'da thunk?

This was sewn with a size 207 bonded polyester using a size 140/22 regular point needle:

Edited November 21, 2015 by Uwe

[pcox]

My Landis 1 has sewn 8 0z. leather to 1/2 inch plywood several times. I use 415 thread 27 needle. the Landis does it easier than my Randal. I have also sewn 1/4 inch plywood with my 3200 Cowboy.

[TinkerTailor]

Been saving these for just the right thread:

And here is a wood sewing machine....

Edited November 22, 2015 by TinkerTailor

[Darren Brosowski]

The 132k6 was one of the main machines in the Auto upholstery industry and they easily did this job.

[Constabulary]

It depends on the wood and the number of layers they have used for the plywood and the thickness. 4mm waterproof oak multiplex is harder than plain 4mm birch plywood.

These "Sewing Plywood and Sewing Metal" videos are just for impressing people but it is nothing special. Sellers like to show how strong their machines are . Well - even my Singer 307G2 (drop feed) machine can sew through some sort of Plywood or some sort of metal sheets. The needle tip will punch trough a lot of "things" - it´s all about pressure on a small spot and frictional force. But everything of course has it´s limits.

Edited November 22, 2015 by Constabulary

[Wizcrafts]

I once sewed through a ruler on a Singer 15-91, after rebuilding it. It was sewn with #69 thread using a #18 needle. As long as the plywood is soft and the full package fits under the presser foot/feet, and the foot/feet have a strong enough pressure spring to keep the wood from lifting with the needle, and the motor has enough punching power, it will sew. A walking foot machine may be limited to #138 thread, with a #22 or 23 needle. Straight stitch machines to #69 thread with a #18 needle.

I should mention that I preferred sewing wood on a Union Lockstitch machine!

Edited November 22, 2015 by Wizcrafts

[ratty]

Many thanks for all of your replies. It does look like i will be able to sew through plywood to make my door card with my singer 111g155. I have attached a couple of photos of the original door card that i wish to copy. As you can see from the photo the plywood is three ply and made from soft wood. The pocket that needs to be sewn is made from 1.5mm chrome leather and the Hidem tape around the perimeter is made from old Rexine (vinyl). I think the moral of the story is, if in doubt try it before taking other peoples opinion as gospel.

thanks again

ian

[novoclan]

Unbelievably, I just finished sewing new door panels for a 1952 MG TD. Yours seems to be a little different design, but if you want some pics how I accomplished it, I would be happy to oblige. Now, I am on to sewing the seats and it is presenting it's own challenges. We lucked out with a leather color that is perfect. So, we're switching from the old vinyl. Of course, that means lots of work.

Anyway, hit me up if you want pics.

[novoclan]

Okay, so here are a few pictures of the mg td door.

It has a different trim than ratty's, so I didn't have to sew through wood. Instead, I just wrapped and stapled.

The leather was purchased from a discount store that deals in lots from failed businesses. So, I don't know where it actually came from originally.

Spent the whole day sewing the seats and finally figured a way to get the hook timing right. Four layers of leather and cushion material on a 1911 Singer. Yipe.

[Darren Brosowski]

In theory most machines can do it

The benefit of a 132k6 or 7 class is the pure rotating mass but it is only going to be of benefit with a larger diameter needle that has minimal deflection.

In most production of car trim they used very light plywood so in most cases a 111 or 211 would do the job. It was only with heavier materials that a 132 or 144 was required.

[LumpenDoodle2]

A friend of mine bought an old Singer 45K to sew through the plywood when he was restoring his classic car. He said it sailed through it with no problems.

[TinkerTailor]

Worst case scenario, take out the thread, handwheel it to punch holes and then hand stitch.

If the holes are pre-punched you can put a harness needle in an awl handle point first, and sew with the eye. This way, you can do machine style lockstitches by hand, kinda like a speedy stitch or a home made jerk needle, with a second thread as a bottom. Faster than saddle stitch. The eye is weaker so you can't use alot of force to push it however

I may have a harness needle or two epoxied into short dowels just to do this. This tool, along with a needle threader, is the easiest way to finish that last backstitch when the thread is too short.

[ratty]

I am adapting the singer 111w155 at the moment to hopefully give it more punching power. I have replaced the clutch motor with a 1Hp servo motor and replaced the motor with a smaller 40mm diameter one. At the moment i am in the process of casting a blank to make a new larger hand wheel 7" diameter and a 6" pulley. This should give the hand-wheel increased momentum and a lower gear ratio, thus more punching power. Has any body else had any experience increasing the size of the hand-wheel/pulley on a singer? I intend to use a number 23 needle (135x 16 TRI DPx16D) with a 20tkt bonded nylon thread to sew through the plywood and leather; do you think this type of needle point is the ideal choice or would a different shape tip be better?

Any thoughts?

[TinkerTailor]

Wear safety goggles. Its hard to stitch straight with one eye.....Needle breakage should be expected with an experiment like this. Pieces can fly far and fast.

And the handwheel swap will probably improve the machine, however remember that the machine was designed to work as built. If you Tim Taylor one system, another is likely to break. The old weakest link in the chain adage.

[sandyt]

On the 211G166, the handwiel is part of the shaft. It holds the bearing in place. Don't know if thats the case with the 111. So first take a look at that before you make your casting.

Sandy.

[Wizcrafts]

I am adapting the singer 111w155 at the moment to hopefully give it more punching power. I have replaced the clutch motor with a 1Hp servo motor and replaced the motor with a smaller 40mm diameter one. At the moment i am in the process of casting a blank to make a new larger hand wheel 7" diameter and a 6" pulley. This should give the hand-wheel increased momentum and a lower gear ratio, thus more punching power. Has any body else had any experience increasing the size of the hand-wheel/pulley on a singer? I intend to use a number 23 needle (135x 16 TRI DPx16D) with a 20tkt bonded nylon thread to sew through the plywood and leather; do you think this type of needle point is the ideal choice or would a different shape tip be better?

Any thoughts?

Try a few different needle points on some scrap wood first. They might be tri-point, LR, LL, round, diamond. Use the best one for the final sewing.

Also, if you are going to tape or glue the leather to the wood first, use Titanium coated needles. They seem to penetrate glue and tape better than standard steel needles. My Titaniums are tri-point.

[bikerdaz]

A good friend of mine is THE mg classic car upholstery specialist here in the uk. W m collingburn and his son James make these door cards almost on a daily basis. I can tell you that the machines they use are singer 132k6's. Mike has been using these machines for around 40 years to do this exact task.

As for the 111,I'd give it a go but as someone has already pointed out,I'd wear eye safety gear...

[houndsnmules]

even though you increased the mechanical advantage at the input, I would imagine it would exceed the original design specs on the internal parts. Its like putting a 3 foot pipe on a 3/8ths ratchet

[TinkerTailor]

even though you increased the mechanical advantage at the input, I would imagine it would exceed the original design specs on the internal parts. Its like putting a 3 foot pipe on a 3/8ths ratchet

I once broke the moving jaw on a 5" record vise right off with a 6' pipe "extension".......That was a hellovah bang.....cast iron don't let go slow.....

[Darren Brosowski]

A Chinese 29k hand wheel - if it has the pulley groove - will fit and save the drama of reinventing the wheel. If no pulley groove then it can be machined.

I am adapting the singer 111w155 at the moment to hopefully give it more punching power. I have replaced the clutch motor with a 1Hp servo motor and replaced the motor with a smaller 40mm diameter one. At the moment i am in the process of casting a blank to make a new larger hand wheel 7" diameter and a 6" pulley. This should give the hand-wheel increased momentum and a lower gear ratio, thus more punching power. Has any body else had any experience increasing the size of the hand-wheel/pulley on a singer? I intend to use a number 23 needle (135x 16 TRI DPx16D) with a 20tkt bonded nylon thread to sew through the plywood and leather; do you think this type of needle point is the ideal choice or would a different shape tip be better?

Any thoughts?

[Trox]

Singer 144W-305 was a machine made for these jobs, sewing leather on to door panels. This one would do it without problems (now sold) Like stated in prior post, as long it's soft plywood and the right needle type.

Tor