Help Identification Singer Or Adler Or?

[sandyt]

So the machine got delivered today.

No extra's, only 4 bobins and 4 different needles. One of the needles seems to fit properly.

A short one was installed, so I don't think the machine was stitching like the seller claimed in the add.

There is only one small nut missing from the first tension disk. It seems to be not metric, so have to think of something. Mabey make a new tension disk shaft.

The type plate says 120-1.

The shuttle race (??) says simanco.

So, I still don't know what brand.

Singer 120-1 doesn't excist.

Adler 120-1 also doesn't excist.

Well there is an Adler 120-1 but thats a way newer model.

Do you guys have an idea?

Sandy.

[sandyt]

Here are the pics.

[Uwe]

Now that you have the machine in front of you, take a bunch of detailed pictures and post them here, particularly stuff with numbers or other identifying marks on it. I'm still voting for Adler due to the shape of the head.

Often parts are interchangeable between brands and models, so they may have installed a Singer race at some point because it was available and cheap. Does this machine really have two needles and shuttles?

I think there was a lot of customization going on back then, too. If you owned a factory and needed a few dozen machines to perform a special sewing operation, Singer or Adler would just build a small custom batch for you, a variation based on an existing mainstream model. There's usually no documentation for those custom-built machines. All you can hope for is figuring out what mainstream model it's related to and try to find parts that route.

[hyttogpine]

Before polish your new machin - and especially the brass plate/type plate - find a good Thread count magnifier, and try to examine the brass(?)-riveting carefully. Also from the inside ?

There are many tings in live you have to be watchful to. One of these is selsmen, especially those who try to make there living out there business/to pay their rent.

[Uwe]

Some machines have parts with numbers stamped/cast right on them. This might be a way to determine brand. Look for parts with numbers on it that are likely original to the machine (not that shuttle race) and compare the numbers to the Adler 20 or Singer 7 parts diagrams. Hopefully, you'll find enough matches to tell you with a degree of confidence whether you have an Adler or Singer (or a mix like 90% Adler with 10% Singer spare parts).

Edited December 18, 2015 by Uwe

[shoepatcher]

That is an Adler head. Someone put in a Singer race to make it work. As Uwe said, some parts are interchangeable or will work. To me, the head looks like a 20 class Adler. The 120's replaced the 20's. A parts book is available on Adlers' blog site under "Downloads" which covers machines no longer in Production. I would download that when you can. Great help.

glenn

[sandyt]

Hello people, thanks for all the help. I am pretty sure it's an Adler 20-2 with some Singer parts. Compared all the pictures. Couldn't find all the the numbers though. But that's oke.

The machine sews pretty good. Have to buy matching needles and thread though. The machine is pretty tight too. Very happy with it.

But before I give it a fresh paint, I have to solve one issue. The feed dog is to high. I can't find any ajustment to do this. Everything looks 'locked'. See last pic. Anyone has an idea how to do this?

[Uwe]

Wow, she cleaned up very nicely and makes a beautiful, long stitch on a big stack of leather. Does your machine actually have reverse via the stitch length lever? Those backstitches look perfect!

Just based on those pictures, I'd say you have a winner and survivor on your hands - congratulations!

The numbers in the third picture sure look a lot like "Kl 20 No 2" to me (Klasse 20 Nummer 2). Also, the second to last picture has the part stamped with 20122, which corresponds nicely with Adler 20 part diagram's part number of 20 00 122 0 (All those extra 0's wouldn't fit on the part anyway, haha). I'm ready to go "All in" (in poker terms) that this is an Adler 20.

As far as the feed dog height goes, it looks locked down to me, too. That pin that goes right through the center of it all prevents you from adjusting the feed dog lift arm position on the shaft, which would adjust how high the feed dog moves during the cycle. I don't see that silver lock pin in any of the parts diagrams, so it may have been added afterwards to make SURE the feed dog height never changes. Without that pin, it would be easy to adjust the lift arm position for the feed dog height.

Many machine's service instructions direct you to adjust the feed dog height so that the full height of the teeth is exposed above the throat plate while it transports. Is yours far off from that?

That feed dog itself doesn't look like a super complicated part. You could perhaps have one custom made by a machinist with a height that suits you. Or file down an existing feed dog if you have extras.

Edited December 21, 2015 by Uwe

[VanRhodes]

Do you have a close up picture of the feed dogs? I scored a rather nice Adler 20-7 a couple of years back(wich also has a SIMANCO shuttle race btw) and it appears you do not have the original feed dog. The Adler 20 is compatible with several of the Adler 120 parts, feed dogs included, with the difference that the feed dogs for the 120 is a little taller, thus protruding higher above the needle plate. If you look closely on the Adler 120 you can see that the needle plate is slightly thicker to mitigate this.

[Constabulary]

This machine most likely left the factory as Adler 20 - BUT - companies like Pfaff, Phoenix or Koehler sold Adler built machines like the 30-1, 30-15 (and maybe others) under their brand own name. What they often did is they just added the digit 1 on the name plate (or replaced the name plate). F.i. the relabeled Pfaff machines usually have addition INDUSTRIA and the Adler 30-1 was sold as PFAFF INDUSTRIA and the name plate states 130-1. Maybe it´s the same with your machine.