Flip Up Needle Clamp - Double Needle

[spotty]

So I've got one of the flip up needle clamps to install on my 112w140 and then noticed that the needle bar is not threaded to accept the new clamp.

I know that I need to cut a needle bar down to accomodate the extra height of the needle clamp but anyone know of a needle bar with a threaded end which would could be used as a donor part.

[Wizcrafts]

I do believe that this item may require an industrial sewing machine dealer to install it safely. The "needlebar rock-frame" may need to be cut away to accommodate this extra wide needle clamp (according to one eBay item I just read about).

[gottaknow]

All of my 112's have threaded needle bars. It's how you change the needle guage. Now if the needle holder has been in there for 50 years, you may have to work at it a bit. I use a piece of suede on the needle bar, then clamp a large vise grip over the leather. I then use an adjustable end wrench to unscrew the needle clamp from the bar. There are two different size bars. I believe the 140 sub-class uses the larger thread size. On the split bar adapters I've used in the past, no modification was required to the machine other than adjusting the needle bar height and retiming. They were actually made by Singer. I have both 112 140's and the newer 212 140's.

I have seen some mechanics braze the needle clamps in place due to stripped threads in which case I just replace the bar and the needle clamp. You can also gain a little room for the needle clamp by using 135x7 needles instead of the longer 135x17's. Good luck.

Regards, Eric

[spotty]

I do believe that this item may require an industrial sewing machine dealer to install it safely. The "needlebar rock-frame" may need to be cut away to accommodate this extra wide needle clamp (according to one eBay item I just read about).

I too read those instructions but have now been told by someone who installed the clamp in the 112w140 - that you simply need to shorten the needle bar. No modification to the rock frame was required. If that was the case I would be much more hesitant as the difference in cost on parts is 15 bucks for needle bar vs 115 bucks for a rock frame.

As far as I can tell there are two needle bars that can be used on a 112w140 which have different part numbers. The original had a push in clamp which was secured with a set screw. The needle bar part I'm told now that is needed is Singer PN 267267 which is threaded on one end. And the total length with the clamp needs to be cut down to 17cm in length. The timing marks on the needle bar are useless because of the increased height of the clamp but it will work just fine at that length.

Thanks for thoughts...

[TinkerTailor]

I too read those instructions but have now been told by someone who installed the clamp in the 112w140 - that you simply need to shorten the needle bar. No modification to the rock frame was required. If that was the case I would be much more hesitant as the difference in cost on parts is 15 bucks for needle bar vs 115 bucks for a rock frame.

As far as I can tell there are two needle bars that can be used on a 112w140 which have different part numbers. The original had a push in clamp which was secured with a set screw. The needle bar part I'm told now that is needed is Singer PN 267267 which is threaded on one end. And the total length with the clamp needs to be cut down to 17cm in length. The timing marks on the needle bar are useless because of the increased height of the clamp but it will work just fine at that length.

Thanks for thoughts...

You were not just told by someone random, GottaKnow is an expert on these things, and has set up these types of machines professionally for decades He has probably worked on the needle bar of a 112 dozens if not hundreds of times, and has probably worked on more machines than any of us have even seen. He is head mechanic at Filson. I would take his advice very seriously, You will be hard pressed to get advice from anyone who knows more.

Don't get me wrong, Wiz is a wiz, and gives great advice and for sure has forgotten more than most of us know, however he was pretty clear that he was not 100% sure in this case.

Edited December 24, 2015 by TinkerTailor

[gottaknow]

All my experience just means I'm old. I'd love to have Wiz in the factory, much like my file cabinets full of machine manuals. I could pick his brain like the resource he is. Like me, his knowledge has come through practical life experience, and I'm sure like myself, plenty of missteps along the way. Industrial machines are not something you just figure out in a weekend on a forum. I try to present information as simply as I can, and hope I don't lead someone astray in the process. I applaud the efforts of everyone who contributes here.

Regards, Eric

[spotty]

All my experience just means I'm old. I'd love to have Wiz in the factory, much like my file cabinets full of machine manuals. I could pick his brain like the resource he is. Like me, his knowledge has come through practical life experience, and I'm sure like myself, plenty of missteps along the way. Industrial machines are not something you just figure out in a weekend on a forum. I try to present information as simply as I can, and hope I don't lead someone astray in the process. I applaud the efforts of everyone who contributes here.

Regards, Eric

I appreciate all the advice - and this is a great resource for people who have a lot more experience on industrial sewing machines than me.

[Wizcrafts]

All my experience just means I'm old. I'd love to have Wiz in the factory, much like my file cabinets full of machine manuals. I could pick his brain like the resource he is. Like me, his knowledge has come through practical life experience, and I'm sure like myself, plenty of missteps along the way. Industrial machines are not something you just figure out in a weekend on a forum. I try to present information as simply as I can, and hope I don't lead someone astray in the process. I applaud the efforts of everyone who contributes here.

Regards, Eric

Wow, thanks Eric! I'd probably enjoy the challenge of working in your factory. It would be a heck of a move though.

[Constabulary]

I´m pulling this old thread again.

I´m just about installing flip up double needle holder son my 212G141 and I figured they do not work - I have in stalled a new threaded needle bar (had to cut the old one as the original needle holder won´t come off) and just received the holders (1/4 + 3/8 gauge). Installing is no problem BUT the needle bar rock frame is to long as it seems.

Pictures show NB at TDC and BDC so the only way would be cutting down the needle bar rock frame, right?

I have checked the parts list and G140 and G141 have the same NBRF. In this add the G141 is not mentioned but the G140 and G145

So is the add wrong or the parts list? I don´t think I will find a shorter NBRF for a decent price (machine was a bargain). So my solution would be cutting the NBRF and use (probably) a shorter needle. Or do I overlook something - I don´t think so.

 

[Constabulary]

Now that I see the pictures I wonder if the 3/8 needle holder will work at all since it is a bit wider than the 1/4"... it may hit the casting....

Soooo is someone out there who successfully has installed a flip up needle holder on a Singer 212 or similar Juki, Seiko or what ever brand?

[gottaknow]

Singer made a shorter NBRF during the years these split needle adapters were popular. I have a couple of them but they don't have part numbers on them like most Singer parts.  I'm thinking they had someone make them and were sold by Singer. I've searched through all my parts books to see if I could have written down the number. The 212's and 112's use different NBRF's and the two short ones I have are in 212G140's. The lower bushing however is plenty long enough to cut off. If I remember, the difference is about 20mm give or take. You may want to consider retiming to 135x7 needles. Also, there's a lot of casting to the right of the needle bar that  you can safely cut out to accommodate your 3/8" gauge. Cut the needle bar off as needed at the top of course. I say go for it.

FYI, here's a picture of the 3 different needle holders. The large and small thread-in style, (the smaller ones are rare) and the screw mounted. I dislike the threaded ones because they tend to wobble. I usually solder the hole and screw to prevent this, and it can be unsoldered when needed.

Regards, Eric

Edited April 20, 2017 by gottaknow

[gottaknow]

I should add that on my Juki LH-512's, the NBRF is much shorter and wouldn't require modifying. The needle bar threads are the same as the larger Singer needle bars as well.

Regards, Eric

[Constabulary]

Hoped you´d jump in here, Eric! Thanks a lot! Very much appreciated!

So when the rest of the gauge sets arrive I will cut the NBRF and NB if necessary. I however may have one or two more questions later.

Again - Thanks a lot!!!

Edited April 20, 2017 by Constabulary

[gottaknow]

1 hour ago, Constabulary said:

Hoped you´d jump in here, Eric! Thanks a lot! Very much appreciated!

So when the rest of the gauge sets arrive I will cut the NBRF and NB if necessary. I however may have one or two more questions later.

Again - Thanks a lot!!!

You will want to cut off the needle bar, but you won't be able to use it for the standard needle holder. Good news is the needle bars are cheap. I did price out the NBRF for a 112W116 the other day and it was $104 us$.

Regards, Eric