Let's Talk About Threads And Needles

[l2bravo]

So I have had a Cowboy 3200 for not quite a month now. I have Organ needles, in 24, 25, and 26. I am not even sure which ones I got with the machine (maybe you guys would have an idea). I have bought some 207, 277, and 346 thread. I have experiemented quite a bit, and sewn quite a bit of stuff with it. I have learned quite a bit about tensions and thread sizes, just want to experiement some with needles.

Which brings me to the subject.

What needles do you guys like, and where do you get them? What brands/ which tips? Does anybody ever use the 7x3 plain point needles for medium stuff?

What thread brands do you guys like? Is polyester any better than bonded nylon?

If you care to elaborate, do you have a preference, for any certain material/needle/thread sizes?

[Art]

7x3 are for sewing canvas tents.

I like Schmetz and Grös-Beckert. I like the D or Diamond point or the TRI, and sometimes the LR.

The Japanese needles (Organ) are bendy as far as I am concerned, but I have yet to try the Ti coated ones I have friends that use Organ needles exclusively and love them.

I use whatever I have (poly or nylon) in the color and size I want. I run Barbour's linen in my Campbell.

Unless made of unobtanium, the price differences are not a factor for me.

Art

[TinkerTailor]

Just a heads up, my techsew came with needles that had green packages that were very similar to the organ packaging, but were not genuine. I do not know if all the clone companies use the same accessory kit or not, but i would not be surprised if they do.

[l2bravo]

Tinker, that is interesting. Mine are labeled Organ, and I bought a couple of extra packages as well.

Art, what/when do you use the different points? What do you get in the final product, that is different when you do? Where do you get them at?

Thanks guys! I am having a great time learning this all, and just want to learn more. Josh

[Art]

The D (Diamond) and TRI points tend to give a straight stitch line. The LR stitches have a little "cant" to resemble hand stitching.

Art

[Darren Brosowski]

Schmetz are the best needles bar none.

Second tier needles that are still very good are;

Organ - made in Vietnam in a Japanese owned and run factory

TNC - Taiwan Needle Company. Set up by the Germans.

DOTEC - Another Taiwanese company set up by the Germans.

Groz Beckert - German company who do not manufacture their own needles. I am not sure but I suspect they are made in Taiwan

Third tier - Not too far behind

Toyo Needles - not well known but the best quality made by Henry Needles in China

Orange - Korean company but quality is variable.

Everything else is "good luck". Some needles are ok for certain applications but not worth the risk on leather.

This is my experience only and I won't be upset if those with more experience have other views.

[shoepatcher]

For info, Schmetz needles are not made in Germany anymore. They are made in India my sources tell me. Groz Beckert needles where ever they are made I have found to be as good as Schmetz. We use both in our factory. Both Organ and Groz Beckert make Titanium coated needles in certain systems which are great. I have found them both to be superior to Schmetz needles in those systems. Schmetz does not make a Ti coated needle to my knowledge. This info based on day to day use in our factory over the last 5 plus years that I have been there.

glenn

[TinkerTailor]

For info, Schmetz needles are not made in Germany anymore. They are made in India my sources tell me. Groz Beckert needles where ever they are made I have found to be as good as Schmetz. We use both in our factory. Both Organ and Groz Beckert make Titanium coated needles in certain systems which are great. I have found them both to be superior to Schmetz needles in those systems. Schmetz does not make a Ti coated needle to my knowledge. This info based on day to day use in our factory over the last 5 plus years that I have been there.

glenn

Just bought some brand new ones from a new shipment i was told, made in germany right on package.

[Wizcrafts]

I prefer using titanium coated needles on my walking foot machine and my patchers (same needle system). The reason is that I use "leather" tape from Wawak to hold seams down for sewing. The tape tends to grab a hold of regular needles and the thread and gum them up. This is less apparent on the titanium needles which seem to resist gumming up much better. Also, there is less smoke when I sew very fast on long straps, where my speeds often reach 15 or more stitches per second.

Edited January 2, 2016 by Wizcrafts

[Ken Nelson]

I cannot think that fast let alone sew nearly that fast. I am envious! LOL

[Darren Brosowski]

Schmetz are made in Germany.

If it does not say "Made in Germany" on the packet then you have been sold a Chinese rip off.

For info, Schmetz needles are not made in Germany anymore. They are made in India my sources tell me. Groz Beckert needles where ever they are made I have found to be as good as Schmetz. We use both in our factory. Both Organ and Groz Beckert make Titanium coated needles in certain systems which are great. I have found them both to be superior to Schmetz needles in those systems. Schmetz does not make a Ti coated needle to my knowledge. This info based on day to day use in our factory over the last 5 plus years that I have been there.

glenn

[CowboyBob]

The Groz-Beckert's are made in India,Schmetz are still made in Germany we just got some 794S in that say it on the package(they have 4-15 date on the package).The leather needle we sell a lot of is the 794S which has a spade point on it that really makes a nice looking stitch in leather,I think looks better than the DIA point(which we also stock in Organ) which seems to make alittle wider hole on the sides than the "S" point.Some Organ needles are now made in Vietnam.

Edited January 2, 2016 by CowboyBob

[Darren Brosowski]

You sure about India on the Groz-Beckertz Bob?

I only ask because India generally seems to be unable to make anything of any quality!

The Groz-Beckert's are made in India,Schmetz are still made in Germany we just got some 794S in that say it on the package(they have 4-15 date on the package).The leather needle we sell a lot of is the 794S which has a spade point on it that really makes a nice looking stitch in leather,I think looks better than the DIA point(which we also stock in Organ) which seems to make alittle wider hole on the sides than the "S" point.Some Organ needles are now made in Vietnam.

[CowboyBob]

Yes,Sir,I'm looking @ a box of 135x17 & that's what it says on it !!They used to be made in the Czech Republic until last year sometime,they seem to work OK !!

[soccerdad]

For info, Schmetz needles are not made in Germany anymore. They are made in India my sources tell me. Groz Beckert needles where ever they are made I have found to be as good as Schmetz. We use both in our factory. Both Organ and Groz Beckert make Titanium coated needles in certain systems which are great. I have found them both to be superior to Schmetz needles in those systems. Schmetz does not make a Ti coated needle to my knowledge. This info based on day to day use in our factory over the last 5 plus years that I have been there.

glenn

Glenn,

Could you talk about the qualities of the best needles when it comes to the factory work? What sort of sewing is this? And why does titanium seem to improve the needles? I'm reading up in advance of my first machine and I'm curious about what makes a good needle. Other replies welcome, too, of course.

Thanks,

Dale

[shoepatcher]

scoccerdad,

I work at Vaughn Custom Sports here in Michigan. We are one of the premier goalie hockey companies in the world. We build goalie equipment, i.e. pads, gloves, arm & chest, pants, cups, collarbone protectors, All the high end gear in the US is built right here. Senior gear, junior gear, bags, masks are built off shore. Sticks are built for us in Canada. Anyway, 85% of our machines are walking foot Adlers; 767's, 867's, 205's, 269s', 869. We have some Juki's and Pfaff's. Because we sew a multitude of materials, needle breakage is a concern. We use Titanium coated needles on all the binder post machines and most of the walking foots in system 134-35 and 135x17. I cut our needle breakage down by at least 50% when I went to TI coated needles, either Organ or G-B. Stitching is just better because the needle does not heat up as much as the Chrome plated needles plus it is less likely to deflect as much and burr. Both the Organ and Grotz-Beckert needles have held up well. Schmetz does not build a Titanium needle. Some of my ladies prefer the Schmetz so we use them. Still a great needle. Titanium is not available in a lot of systems. My advice is get them when you can. They are just a better needle to sew with.

glenn

[JLSleather]

I've hung up this shingle before, but since you asked ....

These are ALL done with #24 needles and 277 thread at about 6/in. The two straps (side by side) were sewn in the direction of teh arrow (material moving away from you).

The LL point (my personal preference) leaves a nice straight stitch line, pulls in tight.

The LR point angles the stitch a bit. Note it makes the stitch look "longer", though it isn't. Also doesn't pull as deep at the same tension.

Underneath pic is just to show the spacing. Again, that's #24 and 277 (nylon).

Edited January 7, 2016 by JLSleather

[soccerdad]

Glenn,

Thanks for the rundown on the hockey goalie sewing work and needles. Very interesting and helpful. Do you have a rule of thumb for when to change out titanium vs. non-titanium needles?

Thanks again,

Dale

[shoepatcher]

soccerdad,

Any machine I have changed to titanium needles has not gone back to regular Chrome Schmetz. I will go to titanium if an operator is having trouble breaking needles. Other than that, we keep the machines with titanium in titanium.

glenn

[soccerdad]

Thanks, Glenn!

[l2bravo]

Thanks Glenn, very helpful.