strap retainers on flap or no

[esantoro]

I'm thinking about foregoing the strap retainers on the flap, which is what Swaine Adeney Brigg and Filson do. Which do you like better, strap retainers on the flap or no retainers?

Ed

[BradB]

I'm thinking about foregoing the strap retainers on the flap, which is what Swaine Adeney Brigg and Filson do. Which do you like better, strap retainers on the flap or no retainers?

Ed

I think I actually like them without!

[Jordan]

I like the looks of the Lt. brown one in the second photo, has a cool clasp too.

[esantoro]

That chestnut bag is done in bridle leather and sells for $2000.

Leaving off the retainers would shave off an hour of construction.

Ed

[MADMAX22]

That chestnut bag is done in bridle leather and sells for $2000.

Leaving off the retainers would shave off an hour of construction.

Ed

Holy .... lol thats one pricey bag. Ofcourse atleast its useful and would probably last a full lifetime.

I think what I would do is try it without the strap retainers and see how it looks with your overall design, color, type of leather. In your pictures I like the way the black one looks as far as shape/form. I like your bag style better and the color but its hard to see/think of what it would look like without the certain parts on there and make up a opinion.

[BruceGibson]

I'm no bag expert by any stretch, and I'm not sure I understand the question. However, I am a briefcase fan, and I see three possibilities as a buyer.

If I were looking to purchase, I'd buy the one on the left. Not trying to score points, Ed (I know the bag on the far left is one of yours), but I don't like the brass hardware on the other two. I like the simplicity and "usability" of the bag on the left.

[tashabear]

Offer it as an option, and charge extra for it. :-D

[Go2Tex]

I like it with the retainers. It's more of a classical design. Of course, you could just make slots in the flap, like cavalry bags.

[Hilly]

I think the retainers on the flap make it look a little more sturdy, not to mention a bit more dressed up, and if I were to purchase one of those bags, I'd definately buy the one with the retainers. Doesn't matter who made them. Just my opinion.

Hilly

[esantoro]

I think the retainers on the flap make it look a little more sturdy, not to mention a bit more dressed up, and if I were to purchase one of those bags, I'd definately buy the one with the retainers. Doesn't matter who made them. Just my opinion.

Hilly

I always carry a lot of stuff with me and want to be able to lash items to the bag. The retainers allow for better securing of items to the flap. They also allow for easier handling, opening and closing of the flap, as everything moves together, rather than having to fidget with straps and flap individually.

Thanks for the feedback.

Ed

[JohnBarton]

That chestnut bag is done in bridle leather and sells for $2000.

Leaving off the retainers would shave off an hour of construction.

Ed

At these prices you simply ask the customer what they prefer and don't sweat the hour. Nice work, I have been a long time fan. I need to get better and charge more. :-)

I'd just offer both styles. Maybe a slightly different price but honestly, I personally don't put a price on every option when it gets to the high end of my price range. I probably should as sometimes I spend way too much time on an aspect of a case that I am working out. However the balance is when people order the bread and butter stuff that we can do in our sleep now.

From looks, I like both. I tend to like the one without the retainers a little more just because I prefer things a little sleeker and don't like a bunch of buckles and belts. But having said that I'd happily and proudly use either bag and I am sure that the one on teh left would get more oohs and ahhhs type comments.

[CodeRed]

Keep the strap retainers that is the sort of detail that makes the difference for buyers like me, if you need to just charge more go ahead, but don't lessen the quality of your work it is too nice to begin with!

[abn]

Keep the strap retainers that is the sort of detail that makes the difference for buyers like me, if you need to just charge more go ahead, but don't lessen the quality of your work it is too nice to begin with!

I agree 100%. If the design is better with the strap retainers, keep them. Don't compromise the quality of your work to save an hour. Simply charge a bit more.

[Bree]

Ed...

I say leave em on and do them like the darker bag withy the taper. Raise the price!!! Life is too short for cheap bags!

[esantoro]

Thanks for the feedback. I do prefer the retainers, as they keep the straps aligned for buckling and the flap and straps can be manipulated in the same motion with one hand.

Ed

[ARTISANe]

The black bag on the right looks just about right, so no retainers. I also have made a few brief cases, and like some of the Aldeney Briggs bags want to use handle plates, but don't know about where to get or make the stiffener to attach these to. Any clues? I have beautiful brass plates and loops for attaching to metal frames, but these type of bags don't use frames--do you reinforce the lids?

[Markus]

I'm thinking about foregoing the strap retainers on the flap, which is what Swaine Adeney Brigg and Filson do. Which do you like better, strap retainers on the flap or no retainers?

Ed

I imagine you put the retainers there to keep things in their place (hence the word retainers, duh!) which makes perfect sense. But from a looks standpoint alone they look a little too utilitarian. It's easy to see the case without them so obviously that left you , let's say "unsatisfied" with the look. Design is the perfect combination of esthetics and function. I think that this is where you are at. You need to continue to attempt to perfect the piece by basically sketching or trying different ways of solving the design problem. It can be a long process, and it can keep you awake at night but when you nail it - you'll know - and you won't have to ask for anyone's opinion. But that's just my opinion ;-)

The first thing I'd try is losing the "wings", or shaping the wings somehow, - or covering them (the wings only) with brass . . .

also re price - a $1000 case is perceived only as a great quality case - at around $2000 you are entering the luxury goods niche - if you really want to give your brand some "status" value, come up with a $6000 bag. You may not sell many but your brand worth will go up quite a few notches.

Markus

[ArtS]

I like the way the black one is done with the retainers at the top seam. It makes for a very clean look.

Art

[esantoro]

I could see handstitching a bridle leather bag in its entirety and putting it up for $3000. Beyond that I don't think it's possible to "come up" with a $6000 bag, unless I use precious metals for some of the fittings. It seems to me that to move even beyond $2000 a bag, you have to create marketing mystique. If Hermes wasn't a "French" company, they wouldn't be able to get as much for their bags as they do.

Swaine Adeney Brigg is a good indicator, I think, of the ceiling for pricing on quality goods and construction without going overboard with marketing mystique.

IF I had people working for me, I could have them make however many versions of a bag that come to mind and then select visually. As it is now, I have to make every bag to sell and work the R&D in incrementally, which slows production quite a bit. Once you cut, you can't go back. Sometimes I'll hesitate two weeks in making a pivotal decision on a bag. I either get tired of thinking about the issue or a certain conviction just eventally comes.

In about a week, I'll have two dark brown latigo Mavericks, one with an aggressively cut flap similar to the SAB, which is working out nicely. I'll post pics.

I love the waking up at 3 am to quickly get an idea out of my head and onto leather to see if the idea works or not. I eventually go back to bed and sleep like a baby.

I imagine you put the retainers there to keep things in their place (hence the word retainers, duh!) which makes perfect sense. But from a looks standpoint alone they look a little too utilitarian. It's easy to see the case without them so obviously that left you , let's say "unsatisfied" with the look. Design is the perfect combination of esthetics and function. I think that this is where you are at. You need to continue to attempt to perfect the piece by basically sketching or trying different ways of solving the design problem. It can be a long process, and it can keep you awake at night but when you nail it - you'll know - and you won't have to ask for anyone's opinion. But that's just my opinion ;-)

The first thing I'd try is losing the "wings", or shaping the wings somehow, - or covering them (the wings only) with brass . . .

also re price - a $1000 case is perceived only as a great quality case - at around $2000 you are entering the luxury goods niche - if you really want to give your brand some "status" value, come up with a $6000 bag. You may not sell many but your brand worth will go up quite a few notches.

ed

Markus

Edited March 24, 2009 by esantoro

[FredF]

I'm pretty sure I like the one with the retainers, although the photpgraphs don't allow a fair comparison. The two cases on the right have buckles and stitching around the buckles which add enough detail to that side of the case to make the design look complete and balanced. In Ed's briefcase the strap draped across the front actually adds visual detail to the front which in actuality is not there. This is why I believe that the retainers, or some other detail may be needed on this side (the front) of the case. Ed, is there a reason that you do not add a buckle to the front (aside from the fact that making a custom "signature" buckle probably costs a fortune!)? Your cases are amazing. I really like these.

I like the way the black one is done with the retainers at the top seam. It makes for a very clean look.

Art

[esantoro]

I tried looking into getting brass closures for the flap. The ones I wanted were about $20 from England, but I'm not sure if they are even made anymore. That may be the next design change, though. It would be nice to get Chicago Screws and locks with "Walden Bags" printed on them, but that would indeed cost a fortune. If it's possible to get them lazer engraved, that might be incentive enough to invest in the necessary machinery.

Ed

I'm pretty sure I like the one with the retainers, although the photpgraphs don't allow a fair comparison. The two cases on the right have buckles and stitching around the buckles which add enough detail to that side of the case to make the design look complete and balanced. In Ed's briefcase the strap draped across the front actually adds visual detail to the front which in actuality is not there. This is why I believe that the retainers, or some other detail may be needed on this side (the front) of the case. Ed, is there a reason that you do not add a buckle to the front (aside from the fact that making a custom "signature" buckle probably costs a fortune!)? Your cases are amazing. I really like these.

[esantoro]

The black bag on the right looks just about right, so no retainers. I also have made a few brief cases, and like some of the Aldeney Briggs bags want to use handle plates, but don't know about where to get or make the stiffener to attach these to. Any clues? I have beautiful brass plates and loops for attaching to metal frames, but these type of bags don't use frames--do you reinforce the lids?

You can run a thin metal bar underneath the handle and drill holes at the appropriate places.

ed

[Torquewrench]

Ed, I like the look of your bag with the retainers much better. The clasps on the others look gaudy to me. Also not sure of their quality and once the leather softens up a bit from use how easy they will latch. Some times less is more- offer these other things as options. Just come up with another name for a bag with these options, to seperate the origonal from those with the options. You have a great looking product that I am sure people will pass on down to future generations. Just my 2 cents, Ross

[UKRay]

Ed, I like the retainers because they add a lot of character to your bags. Without them you risk your products looking like everyone else's. It may be an idea to offer to make the bag without them as a no-cost option - rather than offer to add them.