Adler 4-4: Decreasing Sewing Speed

[bex DK]

I got a good deal (I think.. decent at least, as he put off a couple other sellers when we put a deposit on the machine) on a functional Adler 4-4 machine, but I have a problem. There is no way I can learn to master this machine as fast as it is running right now. It was previously part of a shop full of machinery for a fully trained saddler but I am more of a hobbyist and definitely not used to machines. Searching old threads pointed me at the 104 manual and it also says something about decreasing sewing speed, but I can't find anything in it about HOW to do it, but that may just mean "push the pedal less" in the manual.

I try barely touching the foot pedal, but it either doesn't go at all or flies off at a high speed I can't handle.

So is there any way this speed can be adjusted so it is running at a speed I can better manage? I might be able to handle faster once I've had a lot of practice, but I have to start somewhere.

Also, if anyone is experienced with this machine or similar, is it normal for the tension to be so high that it is really hard to pull the thread manually? The stitching is showing that the bobbin tension is higher than the upper tension but manual 104 says preferably not to adjust the bobbin tension. I pretty much CAN'T pull thread out of the bobbin manually (like to move the leather away to cut the thread) and pulling the top thread through isn't easy. I've tried doing some tightening on the top, but I really need to get the sewing speed down so it doesn't run away with me before I can work too much with it.

I haven't run my own bobbins yet--I figured I could at least do some learning on the bobbins that came along with the machine. It actually came with a pretty big assortment of stuff that I need to learn and experiment with before I can use it for anything "real."

BTW, I am in Denmark in Europe.

[Constabulary]

How fast is your motor running? 1400rpm or faster?

You can slow down a clutch motor (actually the sewing speed - not really the motor) a little bit by installing a smaller pulley, you can get a 40mm pulley at College Sewing in the UK.

Or / and you install a speed reducer like this one:

http://www.allbrands.com/products/39722-techsew-2700-speed-reducer-slows-down-clutch-motor

Or you build one by your self as I did and many others. Search the forum for speed reducer:

https://www.google.de/search?q=speed+reducer+site:leatherworker.net&biw=1280&bih=867&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjSsJq6rqzLAhWBCpoKHZShCoMQ_AUIBigA&dpr=1

Or you buy a new servo motor F.I. from College Sewing in the UK:

https://www.college-sewing.co.uk/SewingMachineServoMotors

and optional you can add a speed reducer as well for increasing the torque.

Edited March 6, 2016 by Constabulary

[Constabulary]

I would say you definitely have to lower the bottom thread tension. But be careful with it because some of the shuttles have a separate set screw for the tension screw. First loosen the set screw and then the tension screw.

[Wizcrafts]

The bobbin thread should have a smooth steady pull, and not be binding inside the bobbin case. Once you get the bobbin tension loosened, reduce the top tension to balance the knots inside the leather.

Clutch motors have an adjustment bolt on the front, on the left forward face. Backing off this (nut and) bolt gives more free play before the clutch pad engages. This may allow your foot to get accustomed to the action of the clutch. Once you get the clutch adjusted for your toe, you should be able to feather it down to 1 stitch per second.

The smaller motor pulley definitely slows down a machine, always. Once you drop the speed that way, it stays slow. A 50 mm pulley will slow it down a little less and still add more punching power.

[llucas]

I am also a novice with sewing machines. On my machine I replaced the clutch motor with a servo motor and added a speed reducing pulley. This produced a DRAMATIC difference in sewing speed. The machine is now manageable and a pleasure to use.

[bex DK]

Thank you, all of you. I will try to study your responses more at the machine and see if I can make sense of it. Unfortunately I have no idea of the RPMs of the machine. I am no good at all with motors and such. I will crawl around under it and see if I can find anything in writing down there. Didn't find the model number until after we got it home, so was only able to go after what he said as to what it could handle. Machine was so dirty he couldn't find the plate.

The speed reducer option, that can be engaged and disengaged, correct? So if I master the machine it could be disengaged for running at the higher speed again? I'd rather not do anything overly permanent, also in case I later decide to upgrade to a machine that can handle heavier materials (what discussions here say the machine handles is a bit contradictory to what the seller told me he made on it, but I think it will handle my needs decently for a while as long as I don't have too many requests for really heavy materials). So I don't want to do anything that would potentially decrease the value of the machine. But a speed reducer might be an ideal solution, and my husband is probably handy enough to come up with something if I show him lots of pictures, or at least to install one if I order one.

Wizcraft, I need to crawl under the table and look again to see if there are more nuts down there. Are you referring to the adjustment connecting the foot pedal itself? I did wonder if adjusting the foot pedal would help. Sorry, but as I have 0 experience with these machines I am not familiar with the terminology. Anyone I talked to over here would be telling me in Danish anyway. I'm an American, so have no issues reading stuff in English, but just don't know the terminology. Is there a diagram anywhere I could study so I better understand your responses?

I also have a contact of a place that works with sewing machines here. They recently had a more powerful Adler on their web page so I suspect they are at least familiar with them. But I felt better asking here for advice, as you will give me straight answers that don't necessarily involve buying things. Afraid calling up a place like that will get me pushed to have a technician out to go over the machine or to buy something that wouldn't really be necessary. But they might be able to help me with speed reducer, although many times it is cheaper to get stuff from outside the country because of the different tax rates.

We are eager to at least get the machine running, but I won't have copious time to play with it until April when I've moved out several orders, mostly rope work. I do a combo of rope and leather.

In all my googling about the speed, I did find a machine the same model as mine for sale elsewhere in the EU. Compared to its listed price, I got a serious bargain, although I don't know if there might be big differences in condition. In some ways that one looked better and in others mine looked better.

Will write more later when I've crawled around under the machine. I will take pictures to verify before adjusting things. Thanks again!

[Constabulary]

The motor usually has a data plate and most of the times you find 1400 rpm or 2800 rpm motors in Europe. 2800 RPM is way tooooo fast for leather work. 1400 is quite fast already but when the clutch is good you can work with it. If you want to keep the motor a smaller pulley is what I would install anyway.

No, you cannot disengage the speed reducer. In a normal configuration the motor is connected to it with a V-Belt and the machine is connected to it with a 2nd V-Belt.

For beginners I´d recommend a new Servo Motor because they have a much better speed control. The combination of a new servo motor + speed reducer is the best option you can have. It is the most expensive solution but you for sure have less trouble with the speed control and you have plenty of torque for sewing thicker materials.

[bex DK]

I managed to get an angle where I could read the plate and it is 1400. At least I assume "omdrejninger" translates directly to RPM--it is in any case rotation related.

I will have to look into the cost of a servo, but I suspect it is beyond my budget at the current time. The machine itself really pushed it, even if I did get a great deal.

If I did this right, you should be able to see these pictures:

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B_uFFXfEF4HhdHltVWxCZXdVWkk&usp=sharing

I couldn't get a legible shot of the plate of numbers on the motor.

Being the smaller motor means it is more likely to be manageable even without pulley change or speed reducer?

Is the long adjustment on the foot pedal/motor connection the thing Wizcrafts meant could be adjusted to possibly make it easier for me to control?

[Wizcrafts]

That motor has an external clutch and I can't see how it gets adjusted. There must be some bolt that moves the clutch closer or farter away from the motor.

As for the drop rods, they are already installed at the end of the control arm. But, the output pulley is humongous! I would recommend getting a pulley with a diameter of 50mm, for slow speed, high torque operation.

Gotta go.

[bex DK]

Thanks!! Sounds like you and Constabulary agree I need a smaller pulley (always nice when advice is same from multiple people--makes it more likely to be accurate), unless I can afford to replace the motor, which I am sure I can't. I will have to see if I can track one down and what it will cost me. The pulley will most likely eliminate the need for a speed reducer, correct?

And I am understanding correctly that the pulley is the wheel that the drive band is on to connect to the machine? Want to make sure I am understanding the right part before I pester my husband to tell me what it is called in Danish so I can contact a shop... Are these things relatively standard or do I need to try to measure anything or make sense of the specs on the motor plate before contacting a supplier? Especially if this motor might not be "normal" for this machine.

Constabulary, if I have trouble getting what I need from the place my used-to-be-my-leather-supplier-but-retired recommends in Herning, do you recommend the UK place or somewhere in Germany as a best chance for getting the pulley replaced? I figured Denmark is easiest since the motor is originally Danish (all the plates on it are in Danish, some from Copenhagen (the place that sold it when it was new, I think) and some from Odense, I think it was), but I don't know what my chances are. They do sell a lot of used machines, which includes a heavier Adler model (20-20), so hopefully they can get parts.

It makes me feel a bit less idiotic to hear my current pulley looks large. That means there is probably a good reason I feel like everything is flying away from me when I try just to sew a straight line.

Thank you both for your help and for putting up with my excessive ignorance on correct terminology. I will learn eventually.

[Constabulary]

Holly smokes - that's a HUGE pulley on your motor - looks like 200mm or so. I would not invest any money in this motor. I doubt you will find a smaller pulley for this one. I never have seen this particular motor before so I cannot give you an advise for it - really not. I think you really need a new servo motor.

I have bought my servo motors from College Sewing in the UK. They also have 40mm pulleys for clutch motors but I doubt they will have one for your motor. You have to remove the pulley first to check what kind of shaft your motor has - straight or tapered.

[bex DK]

Thanks! I will see what I can find out. If I go with replacing the motor is that easy to do myself and are they standard to buy?

The one plate is a sewing machine company, I think. The other is the motor specs.

I wasn't along when my husband picked up the machine, but he swears the seller had no trouble sewing slowly with it. It was a long drive to get it, so I stayed home with animals so he could get machine in car instead of hauling a trailer along. Hopefully he will sit down at the machine himself soon and see if he can make it sew more slowly than I managed--or call the guy we bought it from and talk to him about it, as he said we should contact him with questions (my Danish is NOT good enough to talk to a Dutchman speaking Danish).

Thanks again for your patience and advice. I _REALLY_ appreciate it.

[dikman]

Yep, big pulley indeed! You will need to know the shaft diameter and also look at how the pulley fits the shaft - it will either have a slot in the shaft with a key or locking screws, usually recessed into the pulley somewhere. These days most sewing machine pulleys are pretty standard for a 3/4" shaft with a keyway, but that is an OLD motor, so anything is possible. Fitting a smaller pulley will certainly make it more manageable, if you can find one that will fit, but may still be a handful for a newbie (it was for me, it was inevitable that I would replace mine with servos).

By the way, on that last photo it looks like the thread isn't going between the discs on the top tension/guide?

Edited March 7, 2016 by dikman

[llucas]

I am a novice to sewing leather on a machine -- all my leather work has been hand-stitched until now. I could not control the clutch motor on my machine. It was far too fast to do good work. After advice from people on this forum, this is what I installed. It was not a difficult job and the difference is absolutely amazing. It hurt my budget for a while to buy the servo motor and the reducer pulley, but it was worth it.

Edited March 8, 2016 by llucas

[bex DK]

Yes, the thread is hopped over I see. They are supposed to just run over between the disks and not actually be pushed in between them, correct?

Probably banged something into it. We do not have a large house and my work area is squeezed into what should be a walk through dining room (which is also why there is a gorgeous painting behind the machine... we haven't enough walls). So I have rope and leather tools and supplies all over the place. Doing both requires more stuff, but rope horsemanship stuff actually helps pay for the leather hobby as that needs fewer tools in the long run.

When I looked at the servo motors, I had no clue what to look for. I can see a huge swing in the prices of servos on the college sewing site Constabulary recommended, but I have no clue WHAT servo would fit my needs so I could consider the budget on it. I need to clean up my accounting for last year and this year so far and see how things are looking financially. I may be doing better than I realize and things seem to be picking up already this year compared to last year. It would be good to know what numbers I need to consider, so if I can find a pulley, I can better judge if it is worth risking. If it is hard to find, it will probably be comparatively expensive....

Your servo and speed reducer look very compact compared to the current motor...

[Constabulary]

So you are British, you live in Denmark and you have bought this German machine from a Dutch speaking guy - is that correct?

To make it even more complicated I have an original Adler Class 4 / 5 manual but it is in German language. I have scanned it a while ago but I cannot attach it here because the file is too big. I also have a parts list but I have to look for it.

Please send me your Email address by PM and I can send you the PDF files by Email.

BTW - do not open too many thread for just 1 machine and it´s accessories. It´s easier to follow just one thread

[llucas]

. . . Your servo and speed reducer look very compact compared to the current motor...

The servo is quite a bit smaller than the old clutch motor that was replaced. This one is providing power for an Adler 205-374 which is a large and heavy machine. It is rated at 3/4 horsepower. You had expressed a concern about cost: the motor and the reducer pulley were $265 (USD) plus shipping fees -- altogether less than $300.

[Northmount]

Yes, the thread is hopped over I see. They are supposed to just run over between the disks and not actually be pushed in between them, correct?

The thread needs to be between the tension disks, else you have no control of the tension.

Tom

[bex DK]

So you are British, you live in Denmark and you have bought this German machine from a Dutch speaking guy - is that correct?

Nope, it's worse than that. I am American but I live in Denmark. Been here since 98. And I bought this German machine from a Dutchman speaking Danish who lives in Denmark. I speak/write Danish fine... but only really understand the accent/speech method of the northern part of the country (not their true regional dialect, which I also get lost on, but the way they speak "normal" Danish). Head to the other part of the country and I often can't understand the spoken because the small variations in word choice and pronunciation confuse me. So to take someone speaking Fyn Danish (the island between the jutland and the island Copenhagen is on) and add a Dutch accent and I will probably only understand a few words. My husband is Danish and has even lived in different parts of the country, so he can handle all the variations without thinking.

Sorry about the extra thread--I thought presser feet weren't machine-specific and someone might be able to point me to a generic thing on presser feet where I'd find the info I needed and having it separate would make it easier for someone else to find the same info for a different machine. I thought there might be a guide somewhere I'd just failed to find.

I will send you my mail. My German is limited, but I do make sense of some written German between the Danish and the Latin I'd learned in school years ago. Plus I am sure diagrams will give some information. And my old boss can always translate for me. I worked for a long time for SUSE in Germany, editing and proofreading their manuals (from a home office in Denmark). I don't think the German my coworkers taught me is useful for a sewing machine manuals. ;-)

[bex DK]

The thread needs to be between the tension disks, else you have no control of the tension.

Tom

Thank you! That is probably why it is ending up on the bottom when sewing then. I will try again later that way.