removing stirrup leathers martha josey saddle

[cloehorse]

Hi im new to the forum and would like some advice. I am in New Zealand and have had a martha josey barrel saddle come in to have the stirrup leathers replaced.The leathers are bolted to the bars just behind the swells. The bolts keep spinning and not undoing. Does anyone know how to undo these. Cheers Nigel Camerron

[Thor]

What kind of tree is this, wood or ralide?

[cloehorse]

Wood with fibreglass covering

[Thor]

Ok then... if it's just spinning, there are two possible causes, one would be - and that's the most common one - that the thread is just spinning through in the bottom of that hole. Take a tool, able of going under the screw (just hoping you're meaning a wood screw and not an actual bolt) head and lifting it while you turn it. The second one isn't as simple. Something like this

  

would sit in the tree and the bolt was glued in place. About the dumbest thing one can do, but have seen it already. Technically same procedure, but you would have to cut the bolt once you got it all removed and you will have to glue dowel into the hole and seal it with fiberglass. 

[cloehorse]

Definitely not a wood screw with the thread stripped  , must be something like the picture you posted or a bolt with a nut in the tree. Have emailed  circle y with the serial number. 

[Thor]

I'm very interested of the outcome. Could you post pictures of this please?

[cloehorse]

Hi Thor , when I push my hand between the skirts and the bars I can feel a slight lump opposite where the stirrup leathers are. Maybe worth removing the front of the skirts and cutting a small hole in the fibreglass to see what's in there.

[BondoBobCustomSaddles]

As for Circle Y, a long time ago I was doing a lot of horn repairs on Circle Y saddles around here.  the top and bottom were just glued and stitched to the horn, no filler tacked to the actual horn for strength.  Anyway I was  doing so many, I called them to see if I could become a factory repair station in MI.  The answer was no, just send it back and they will fix them for a fee and shipping.  I will be surprised if they give you anything more than that.

Bob

[BOB BRENNER]

Generally, when stirrup leathers are attached with a bolt, a "TEE" nut is used.  The "TEE" nut is set into the bottom of the bar and has prongs that hold it in place.  If these prongs were bent on installation or not griping the bolt and nut will spin.  You will have to drop the skirts and replace the "TEE" nut.  Depending on the construction method you may have to cut out the fiberglass covering to replace the nut.  It is a pain in the rear end.  This method of attaching the stirrup leathers is a take off of the Fallis balance ride saddle known as the Monty Forman saddle.

When this happens I charge double my regular charge for replacing the leathers.  You will spend more time fixing the nut than replacing the leathers.

Have fun.

Bob

[cloehorse]

Thanks Bob , that was what I needed to know , thought it must have been something like that.

[cloehorse]

Have got this saddle pulled to bits. Had to remove skirts. Then grind fibreglass where bolts go through bars, there was a big lump of bog over the top of the tee nut. Could't get tee nut undone so cut it off with grinder. New tee nuts and bolts to buy then i can attach new stirrup leathers. Thanks for the advice every gave me.

[Thor]

Did you take any pictures at all? 

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

I get a few flex tree saddles in for repair. The makers of these love to use tee nuts. I hate, Hate, HATE tee nuts and flex trees.  I echo everything Bob Brenner said. Covering the Tee nut with the fiberglass is a new level of stupidity. On the other hand, I've seen Tee nuts floating around loose between the skirts and the tree.  Talk about a pressure point!  I was thinking about something the other day. Part of what I THINK makes a good saddle a good one is the ease with which it may be disassembled when repair is eventually needed, while still being built in a manner that it doesn't come part UNTIL disassembly is required. And to think that the saddles one builds are built so well that they NEVER will need repair, well that's just arrogance and ignorance. Eventually, all saddles will need to come apart for some sort of maintenance.  One of my own personal pet peeves is the use of HUGE steel ring shank nails at every single stage of construction, from the ground seat to installation of the last rosette. On a saddle that hasn't seen oil since it was new (late '70's early 80's) the nails have rusted badly and with the combination of the rust and the leather being dry too long it is impossible to remove some parts without tearing through the leather.  I realize the nice slim stainless ring shanks we use now haven't been available for all that long, but some of the nails I find in "better quality saddles" are the next step down from pole barn spikes. It is easy to do more damage than good getting these saddles apart for even simple repairs. So that's something to think about when building one or putting one back together after repair. Think of the guy that has to take the saddle apart next time. It just might be you!!

[cloehorse]

Thor i have got photos but im not the best with computers so will try in a few days to get them posted on here. Big Sioux Saddlery what would you recommend covering the new tee nuts with so that the bottom of the bars are smooth or is it better to just leave a hole?

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

Cloe, I'd want to examine the saddle myself to make that decision. Adding fiberglass at this point could make a lump (pressure point), so I'd be tempted to leave it, if when running your hand over the bottom of the bar you don't feel too big of a hole or irregularity.  If you do cover it, you will need to do some sanding to feather the edges out to blend. I've done a fair amount of tree repair using fiberglass, and I hate working with it.  Even just doing minor repairs to a saddle with a fiberglass cover makes me all itchy for the rest of the day.  Good luck to you!

[Thor]

Might be a dumb question but would this shoe sole repair stuff be an option to fill the hole? Just wondering cause it's a paste and dries out hard.

[BondoBobCustomSaddles]

And so, as  Big Sioux states that he would do some sanding to feather edge it and keep it from leaving a bump, so would I,  however; I would, and do use , yep you guessed it, Bondo. It is easily sanded water resistant and works well in conjunction with fiberglass.  That is not how I got my name, but; when in Rome, do as the Romans do!

Bob

[cloehorse]

I have just finished repairing this saddle. I put new counter sunk bolts and tee nuts in. I ended up using a product called knead it to cover the tee nuts  and the hole in the bars. Poor bugger who has to pull it to pieces next time.