Looking to upgrade to a sewing machine

[craftsman827]

I do a lot of hand sewing.  I am getting more orders for dog collars & harnesses.

Hand stitching takes too long. I am thinking about purchasing a good sewing machine.

Most of my customers want studs on the dog collars & leads.

In the photo you can see the studs take up most of the leather.

Is there an attachment for the sewing machine that lets you sew on the edge of the leather, with the studs in the way ?

 The leather I use is 10/12 oz. bridle leather, lined with 4 oz. of the same leather. Some customers want 4 oz. suede lining.

Some suggestions for type & make of a good machine would be appreciated.

[TomG]

I am not a pro by any means but it looks like there is not enough edge for a pressor foot to run on.  Maybe Wiz or Kevin will chime in.

But I have to know.. Where did you get the brass martingale chain?

Tom

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

That is one of my gripes about the new machines like the 441 clones and I suppose the Adlers also. The foot is too wide to sew close to spots when you don't have much of an edge. A traditional harness machine such as a Campbell/Randall would do what you need. They have many different feet and they were made for close and fine work.

[craftsman827]

6 hours ago, TomG said:

I am not a pro by any means but it looks like there is not enough edge for a pressor foot to run on.  Maybe Wiz or Kevin will chime in.

But I have to know.. Where did you get the brass martingale chain?

Tom

I got them a long time ago from , Abbey in UK

They are very expensive now, I think they are 10 pounds.

Do you want to purchase them ?

[TomG]

21 minutes ago, Big Sioux Saddlery said:

That is one of my gripes about the new machines like the 441 clones and I suppose the Adlers also. The foot is too wide to sew close to spots when you don't have much of an edge. A traditional harness machine such as a Campbell/Randall would do what you need. They have many different feet and they were made for close and fine work.

Didn't know that.  But the Singers, Consews and clones have tons of feet as well. How does the Harness machine handle the studs?  His edge looks so thin, I don't see how a foot would be able to get good traction without marking the leather, and I'd think it would have a tendancy to fall off the edge unless you were very, very careful.. and lucky <g>

 

[TomG]

9 minutes ago, craftsman827 said:

I got them a long time ago from , Abbey in UK

They are very expensive now, I think they are 10 pounds.

Do you want to purchase them ?

Haha.  Must be Abbey of England... Naw.. Not for 10 pounds .... I think I'm paying around $3 each for nickel plated.  I have 1 source for brass plated here in the states, but they only have 3/4" now, and the first - and last - time I ordered, it took 3 months to get them.  He was out of stock and waited until he had a really big order of stuff to get more... He orders from China.. Probably Alibaba...

 

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

8 hours ago, TomG said:

Didn't know that.  But the Singers, Consews and clones have tons of feet as well. How does the Harness machine handle the studs?  His edge looks so thin, I don't see how a foot would be able to get good traction without marking the leather, and I'd think it would have a tendancy to fall off the edge unless you were very, very careful.. and lucky <g>

 

 That is true of these other machines having lots of other feet, but the feed mechanism differs from the harness stitchers. The clones require at least an outside foot plus the center toe to feed correctly. I just measured a headstall cheekpiece that I sewed on my Randall. It has spots near the edge that were placed BEFORE sewing. I had less than 1/4" inch sewing margin between the spots and the edge of the leather and I had no problems. Foot marks on leather is part of the game. You rub them out if they occur. And you ALWAYS have to be very careful when sewing close. I know harness makers that have been building harness for decades and will never rise above just common work because they don't strive for perfection. Part of it is their mentality, part of it may be that they have never had the opportunity to look at top end harness.  I'm talking about stuff that costs thousands of $ per horse.   Inspected closely, one wonders how it's even possible to do some of the things that the maker has done. THAT is what separates common work from superior work. "Very, very careful is part of what gets you there. And no, I am not there yet!

There may very well be other machines that will do the job, but I know for a fact that the real true harness stitchers were made to sew close and fine. If a machine has a "triple feed" mechanism (the sewing machine gurus may have to help me out here) they by design require more width of foot (feet) to operate correctly. The harness stitchers are either needle feed or awl feed so the foot can be narrower. I also sew a lot on a Landis One, and while it is a closed needle walking foot/ feed dog machine, It is made to sew pretty close.  The harness part shown in the attached picture was sewn on my Landis One. The spots were set before sewing. While I don't know the exact margin and don't have the part to measure as this was years ago, I know it is way less than 3/8" of an inch, and I was sewing through three layers.  I always figure on 3/8" when sewing on my Cowboy 4500, which is why I hate it for anything with spots or close work. I love it for a lot of things, but sewing close and doing fine harness work, there are other machines that will perform better.

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

And I'm not saying that you WILL be able to do what you're wanting to do with ANY machine, but the true harness stitchers will come the closest. If you look at the modern "blingy" tack with all the rhinestones and crap, most all the spots have either been set AFTER sewing, or they have a very wide margin, having been sewn on a newer machine. If you're talking about a narrow strap with a row of clincher spots down the center. you may very well NOT find a machine to do what you're wanting without altering the process or the specs of the strap and/or the spots.  About as fine as I could go with my Randall was a 5/8" strap with a row of 3/16" spots down the center. I could sew this after the spots were set. Best of luck to you!

[oltoot]

I note than no one has said anything about the many curved needle shoe machines that can be had for not a lot. True they will not handle an entire project, hand sewing will have to be employed for the ends, buckles, etc but for the long, straight, close edges they will excel with just a little practice. They would not be an only, multi tasker but would fill a void in a varied operation; but, I have a foot for my Union Lock (needle feed harness stitcher) which sews a pretty close edge. And it will handle most entire applications with just a little planning  

[craftsman827]

On ‎4‎/‎26‎/‎2016 at 8:31 AM, Big Sioux Saddlery said:

 That is true of these other machines having lots of other feet, but the feed mechanism differs from the harness stitchers. The clones require at least an outside foot plus the center toe to feed correctly. I just measured a headstall cheekpiece that I sewed on my Randall. It has spots near the edge that were placed BEFORE sewing. I had less than 1/4" inch sewing margin between the spots and the edge of the leather and I had no problems. Foot marks on leather is part of the game. You rub them out if they occur. And you ALWAYS have to be very careful when sewing close. I know harness makers that have been building harness for decades and will never rise above just common work because they don't strive for perfection. Part of it is their mentality, part of it may be that they have never had the opportunity to look at top end harness.  I'm talking about stuff that costs thousands of $ per horse.   Inspected closely, one wonders how it's even possible to do some of the things that the maker has done. THAT is what separates common work from superior work. "Very, very careful is part of what gets you there. And no, I am not there yet!

There may very well be other machines that will do the job, but I know for a fact that the real true harness stitchers were made to sew close and fine. If a machine has a "triple feed" mechanism (the sewing machine gurus may have to help me out here) they by design require more width of foot (feet) to operate correctly. The harness stitchers are either needle feed or awl feed so the foot can be narrower. I also sew a lot on a Landis One, and while it is a closed needle walking foot/ feed dog machine, It is made to sew pretty close.  The harness part shown in the attached picture was sewn on my Landis One. The spots were set before sewing. While I don't know the exact margin and don't have the part to measure as this was years ago, I know it is way less than 3/8" of an inch, and I was sewing through three layers.  I always figure on 3/8" when sewing on my Cowboy 4500, which is why I hate it for anything with spots or close work. I love it for a lot of things, but sewing close and doing fine harness work, there are other machines that will perform better.

Beautiful work !  I can't afford the Cambell machine,.  It's about $3,000.00

I'm looking to spend about $1,500.00

Any machine out there for that $ ?

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

If you are sewing mostly strap work, a Landis One is better than the clones for doing what you want to do, provided it is a tight machine and adjusted properly. Many of them are nearly worn out but still sew, although you will not get a tight, pretty stitch out of a worn out machine. They are available from time to time, often for LESS than you are looking to spend.  You may have to travel to find one.  The Landis Ones are not always best for sewing up close to a center bar buckle, or sewing gussets in bags, etc due to the design of the shuttle race.  But for flat work, like dog collars, I do think it would work, and work much better sewing up close to spots than any of the clones.  It was the only machine I used for at least 15 years. You learn to modify your construction techniques based on your machine's capabilities or shortcomings. I can measure the margin needed for the "One" if you'd like.

[Wizcrafts]

On 4/27/2016 at 8:54 AM, craftsman827 said:

Beautiful work !  I can't afford the Cambell machine,.  It's about $3,000.00

I'm looking to spend about $1,500.00

Any machine out there for that $ ?

If you can get a fully operational Campbell Lockstitch machine, with extra bobbins, needles and awls, in good condition, for only $3,000, grab it! These machines list for $6,000 plain Jane.

[Wizcrafts]

As for sewing close to hardware with a narrow edge, Cowboy made a set of feet that are inline for the 441 clones. I have that set for my CB4500 and use it for those rare times when i have to sew a sole back onto a boot or shoe, or sew a shaped pouch or case very close to the raised side (with too little room on the right). Contact Bob Kovar, at Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines, at 866-362-7397, for the price and availability.

 

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

That's very interesting, Wiz, I didn't know these were available. I might have to get me a set of those