Lead time

[JLSleather]

In the course of what I do, I see quite a bit of what people call "lead time".  You know, somebody says "hey, look at what I did with your pattern!" or "check out my ...", etc.

Granted, there's gonna be a bit of time in anything not straight off the shelf.  And I try to keep it 'first come, first served" (though I admit, I've thrown a black holster into the works ahead of a tan one since I was already doing black and had black thread in that machine).  But if I can't get to a guy within about 6 weeks, I'm referring them to another leather crafter.  And I mean one who can do the work, at a fair price, in the time requested (they do exist!).

But lately I see a lot of lead times 12 or 16 or 20 WEEKS.  Now, each his own, and what a guy does with his money is rightly none of my business   But 16 weeks?  You realize that's like... oh... 4 MONTHS.  For a simple belt or holster? Not this guy.  I'll give a guy 4 weeks... if I know the guy I might even go 6 weeks.  Beyond that, no.

I use THE best leather available in the states and I have references (I mean, real people, not some who "partner" with me by trading likes n tweets).  So I can't think of anything they would be doing that would make it "worth it" to wait months for such simple projects.  In fact, beyond 6 weeks, you aren't "reserving a spot", you're giving that guy a no-interest LOAN

Now, I understand that some projects involve considerable time.  I wouldn't expect a custom saddle by next month, nor would I wait by the window for a large quantity order.  But for a belt or holster, or even a belt/holster SET,... seriously, unless it's coming from Elvis -- I aint waiting MONTHS.

[particle]

My site is setup to take payment at the time the order is placed. I used to collect orders via a form on my site, then request payment just prior to starting the order. What I found was loads of people forgot they placed the order by the time I got to them in the queue, and it would usually take people days or weeks to reply, if ever. Or people would buy a gun, order a holster, then realize they don't really like the gun and trade it off, but forget they ordered a holster. Meaning, I was jumping all over the place in the queue to finish orders on an as-responded basis, instead of as-ordered basis. My wife does most of my order management, leaving me time to focus on my 8-5 job (plus 2+ hours of drive time to & from work), family time (wife & 3 young kids), and shop time. To simplify her life, she asked that I start collecting money up front. My order cancellations went from 2 or 3 per batch, to 2 or 3 per YEAR.

I'm one of the 16-18 week lead time (Elvis wanna'be) guys. Not because I think my holsters are prized unicorns, but because people keep ordering holsters from me and I simply don't have enough hours in the day to keep up. The only solution is to increase the lead times (and/or raise prices, which I really need to do anyway), which has helped slow down new orders considerably. However, people keep ordering. I could close my site, but that would close down my other products (digital products included), and that would be unwise as I've seen others do that and have a difficult time recovering and getting new orders back to the frequency level from prior to shutting things down. I could mark my hand-made items as out-of stock with no back-order options, but then I have to try and forecast when I'll get my lead times down and guess when I should activate my hand-made products again and just hope that new orders start rolling in so I have orders to work on when I'm ready for the next batch...

Truthfully, I'm trying to slow down new hand-made physical product orders. I may not actually take 16-18 weeks to finish an order (although I am right now because I got absolutely slammed in December 2015 with new orders), and my lead time is normally a little shorter (8-12 weeks is more normal), but it gives me a little flexibility to focus on the things I'd much rather be doing (most notably, spending time with family), which is building my digital product library (residual income products like patterns, tutorial videos, etc).

I can understand not wanting to wait months to receive your item. Good thing there's so many makers out there to choose from. But I'm humbled and grateful that anyone would actually wait that long for MY products.

 

 

Edited May 26, 2016 by particle

[JLSleather]

Uh, yeah.. theoretically less cancel when you have their money (that's that loan I was talking about). 

I have a buddy up the road -- drives a REALLY nice truck. ".  According to him, people want to see the contractor pull up in a nice truck, which [he deems] makes him appear  "responsible" and "professional".  So I said that when I see a contractor in the drive with a really nice truck (no scratches, no "work" marks) I don't see "professional" -- I see a guy who likes driving shiny trucks and wants ME to pay for it

Richard's a nice enough guy - just maybe a tad of a small-man complex (?).  I mean, I just said "that's a nice lookin' truck", -- never suggested that he should justify anything to me (I mean, it's his show)...

[OLDNSLOW]

I don't want to infer something here that may not be correct but, both of you guys have so much to offer to the community that it is unreal and I appreciate what both of you have given in one way or another.  I will shut up now and go back in to my little space.

 

Ron Padilla

O n S

[JLSleather]

Glad I could help somehow, Ron.

 

[klaykrusher]

Good topic, thanks for bringing this up Jeff.  Always wondered how some makers had crazy wait time.  Didn't think to deeply about it though, just figured word-of-mouth and social media based on product quality was the determining factor.

Particle, I didn't realize you were holding down a full time job, just thought ALW was your full time gig, and I assumed that from your 16-18 week wait.... don't know how you keep up....

[treyman]

Hats off to those that can keep customers with long lead times. If the lead times are volume related then sounds like pricing adjustment is badly needed. Why would you not raise prices. Higher prices= shorter lead time less work and same profit.  

[Boriqua]

I had enough super high pressure in my real job. Now I want to have fun and make a few bucks. I try to NOT take orders at all. I make the things I want to make and put them up and if you like it you can buy it. If I do take a custom order I don’t take deposits unless its a real custom piece because I am just uncomfortable having someone’s money and not having delivered anything. I mean if I get hit by a bus I dont want a bunch of peoples money in hand. I do take some orders and my lead time quote is always 2 weeks and I usually deliver in about a week and a half. I'm kind of a nut about cure and dry times and don’t skimp on either.

I wont put a deposit on anything. Got burned twice and it left a bad taste in my mouth. One knife maker went on and on about how he was getting divorced and he was losing his shop space and yadda yadda. I dont want to seem insensitive but what did that have to do with the money I had already given him. If you have something for sale and I like it I will reach in my pocket but a bunch of the etsy ads that say made to order .... they will never get my money.

[JLSleather]

Well, I'm not opposed to paying and then waiting, entirely.  I mean, if you order something from Hermann Oak (for example) you pay, then you wait.  Nothing unusual there.  But if they had a 3-4 MONTH wait list, ... I'm somewhere else

 

 

[bikermutt07]

Everyone is making some fabulous points. 

Here's my experience with long lead times.

Two Hawks tomahawk.

He had a 90 day lead time. My account was charged when I ordered it.  I understood from the beginning it was going to take awhile and he had a few mixed reviews. It did take longer than 90 days. I believe it was just a little over 4 months. That's a long time to wait, but here's my takeaway.

1. I got to pay for it when I ordered it. It was expensive and I was glad I didn't have to worry about scraping up the cash when it was ready.

2. I knew going in he was a small company owner/operator. I knew that small business life can be hectic and overwhelming. I knew this could add to my wait.

3. He did reply back to me and (if I remember right) even contacted me about progress towards the end. 

4. I got what I ordered. A well made beautiful tomahawk.

5. I supported a small American business.

In this world of cheap crap and me me me ( I want it now) mentality it's hard to do business. Average people who order things from Amazon think it should be here tomorrow morning.

That's just not the case with custom built items.

I think most blue collar folks who order from you guys understand that, especially if you inform them upfront. 

I think way back to my young days in the food service industry. One of my managers taught me that a person will wait a long time for service, IF, they are acknowledged and see that you are busy. That is one of the best things I have ever learned.

People don't mind waiting as long as they know you are trying your best to help them.

FWIW, cheers.