Tandy rapid rivets either bending or not holding. Help!

[nevadabob]

Making a dog leash and using Tandy double cap rapid rivets. The top of the post peeks out of the hole about 1/8 inch and I'm using the proper rivet setter tool and am using the flat spot on my vise as a foundation. I've got a package of 100 that I'm going through rather quickly. The post ends up leaning and I can usually pull the cap off. Any thoughts on what I'm doing wrong? I don't have a rivet setting base, the kind with the concave indents/circles. Thanks for any help.

[Brocade]

I have had this same problem almost every time that I've used Tandy rivets. Personally, I think that their rivets are just of inferior quality. They don't seem to mushroom out or split properly. In my experience, only about 30 out of 100 will function as intended, and that was only when I used a pair of jeweler wire-cutters to pre-split them. You should be using a rivet setter base, though. It helps keep the post from flattening and looking janky. It also keeps the post from sliding around and giving the bend you're getting.

My suggestion are 'screw rivets' or Chicago screws. There are also other rivet makers that are better, such as Hanson Rivets. However, the screw rivets are changeable if they become damaged over time. They aren't that much more expensive than regular tap rivets, either.

 

-Crystal

[Mike516]

45 minutes ago, nevadabob said:

Making a dog leash and using Tandy double cap rapid rivets. The top of the post peeks out of the hole about 1/8 inch and I'm using the proper rivet setter tool and am using the flat spot on my vise as a foundation. I've got a package of 100 that I'm going through rather quickly. The post ends up leaning and I can usually pull the cap off. Any thoughts on what I'm doing wrong? I don't have a rivet setting base, the kind with the concave indents/circles. Thanks for any help.

I would suggest if you're using double caps, get the anvil with the concave's for the caps. If you're using a flat anvil, you're teetering the cap that's on it and that would be why it's not setting correctly. I use SLC rivets every day, which are the same quality of Tandy's and don't have any issues. It did take me some time to sort of perfect my technique, and trust me if I can do it anyone can 

[Boriqua]

I stopped getting rivets at Tandy and just get the brass ones from weaver. Having said that ... I feel like a full 1/8 sticking out of the hole might be just a touch on the long side. The tube is bending over and not being given enough support to squash especially if your hole in the leather is a little oversized. I use a flat base for the rapid rivets with the concave setting tool for the top for a hundred years and works fine.

Bummer wasting material I know! Only thing I can suggest besides running to tandy and trying shorter ones is to tap the head onto the post somewhat lightly just to get the head set down well on the post and then Whack to set. It may help?

[nevadabob]

I appreciate the tips. I placed an order with Springfield LC for their double cap rivets. And I'll be checking out the Chicago screws.

[JerseyFirefighter]

I had the same problem with Tandy rivets and have made the switch to SLC's stuff. I feel much more confident using there rivets. I would never trust securing dog collars with rivets because im traumatized now  . As a matter of fact im waiting on a collar whose rivet let loose because of those rivets. Now I have to find out how im replacing a decorative rivet with a liner already stitched on the back to cover them. :/ 

[TomG]

I've used Tandy double-cap brass and nickle plated rivets for 10 years.  I've had very, very few problems with them and 99% of those were me.

1/8" is too tall. 90% of the time, the post is going to lean or shift to the side.  Especially if the hole is too large.  The hole should be just big enough to let the cap set all the way down.
1/16" is the recommended height for all rapid and double cap rivets to the best of my knowledge. 

To use a "too long" rivet, I use a pair of fine, flush-cutting cutters to trim them to size once put into the leather and then reshape the post with them as well.  I've had maybe 5 failures in those 10 years that I am aware of.

I've also set them with and without the concave base. I've never seen any difference other than visual - flat base vs domed base.

All of this being said, I recently bought the Goldstar press and dies.  I have set countless double caps that were at least 1/8th" above the surface and had zero posts leaning over.  I leave the dies in all the time and just grab it, set it on the bench and go.  Just be aware that the Goldstar double cap dies are marked in mm size and Tandy rivets are all mis-sized.  I beleive the mediums are marked as 7mm and are actually 8mm. So you have to buy a die size larger.

Their Line 20 snap dies are not cut to fit the Tandy snaps either.  They fit everybody else's, per the guy at the store.

Good luck

[nevadabob]

While I'm awaiting the SLC order, I decided to be creative with what I have. I made a washer out of some thinner leather. My post hole in the leather leash is very small, pretty tight fit as the post pokes up through. I put some contact cement on the post and inside the cap. The hole in the fold over end is a tad bigger so as to accommodate the bigger cap insert. The post now pokes up @ 1/16". Tapped the cap end very lightly and will let it dry overnight.

I appreciate the additional comments.

Edited May 27, 2016 by nevadabob

[Colt W Knight]

6 hours ago, Mike516 said:

I would suggest if you're using double caps, get the anvil with the concave's for the caps. If you're using a flat anvil, you're teetering the cap that's on it and that would be why it's not setting correctly. I use SLC rivets every day, which are the same quality of Tandy's and don't have any issues. It did take me some time to sort of perfect my technique, and trust me if I can do it anyone can 

Ive used hundreds of tandy double cap rivets using the concave anvil and punch, and I have never had an issue either. 

 

[byggyns]

I have to agree that you have too much post exposed. I set my double caps with the post flush to 1/16" proud of the surface. As long as the cap will center on the post, I've found that the act of setting the rivet will compress the leather around it enough to get a good flare out of the post and hold securely.

[Mike516]

I would like to note, I don't use rivets or snaps with my buckle collars and I won't use them if I start making leashes either. I'm more comfortable using chicago screws and a dab of locktite for those. I have stainless steel, but I've come to like the nickle plated solid brass ones more.

[Boriqua]

2 minutes ago, Mike516 said:

I would like to note, I don't use rivets or snaps with my buckle collars and I won't use them if I start making leashes either. I'm more comfortable using chicago screws and a dab of locktite for those. I have stainless steel, but I've come to like the nickle plated solid brass ones more.

You have a point Mike. I made a collar for one of my dogs and made it where the d ring was on the back opposite the buckle so I wouldnt have to look for the D when I was taking my dog out. I had used 4 rapid rivets to secure it to the collar and when my 65lb dog caught sight of a damn rabbit while I wasnt paying attention she jerked and the D came right off. I know there is some mathematical formula but 65lb dog taking off at full speed hits the end of a 6 foot lead with a 200lb weight on the other end that is static equals alot of force on a wee bit of brass.

She was so surprised she was loose she just stopped in her tracks but I then attached it with copper rivets and burs and never had a problem. I made a few others for friends and used the rivets and burs there too. Chicago screws would certainly work but anything that is going to be jerked .. I would stay away from rapid rivets.

When I looked it hadnt separated the rivet, the set held, it actually pulled the soft flat brass that is the bottom portion of a rapid rivet through the leather. It just looked like a bugle.

I dont make dog collars for sale but with people suing over every damn stupid thing in the world, whether its their fault or not, I wouldn’t take the chance on rapid rivets for dog collars that I sell for profit. Dog breaks loose and heads under a car and you might get a very hostile phone call.

Alex

[Mike516]

2 minutes ago, Boriqua said:

You have a point Mike. I made a collar for one of my dogs and made it where the d ring was on the back opposite the buckle so I wouldnt have to look for the D when I was taking my dog out. I had used 4 rapid rivets to secure it to the collar and when my 65lb dog caught sight of a damn rabbit while I wasnt paying attention she jerked and the D came right off. I know there is some mathematical formula but 65lb dog taking off at full speed hits the end of a 6 foot lead with a 200lb weight on the other end that is static equals alot of force on a wee bit of brass.

She was so surprised she was loose she just stopped in her tracks but I then attached it with copper rivets and burs and never had a problem. I made a few others for friends and used the rivets and burs there too. Chicago screws would certainly work but anything that is going to be jerked .. I would stay away from rapid rivets.

When I looked it hadnt separated the rivet, the set held, it actually pulled the soft flat brass that is the bottom portion of a rapid rivet through the leather. It just looked like a bugle.

I dont make dog collars for sale but with people suing over every damn stupid thing in the world, whether its their fault or not, I wouldn’t take the chance on rapid rivets for dog collars that I sell for profit. Dog breaks loose and heads under a car and you might get a very hostile phone call.

Alex

Yes, that's right, I do make them with copper as well. Those are very strong, just not everyone's taste. I like the rustic look of them, but not everyone does.

[TomG]

Easy fix.  Put the collar through the D-ring and secure in place with a 1-1/2" long "tongue" using anything from glue to stove bolts. Doesn't matter if it breaks.  It it breaks the collar in half, the animal has no business being on a leash!!!

[nevadabob]

Tried the glue thing...some held, some didn't...and that's when I applied some force to try and get it to pop open. My biggest fear is what Boriqua mentioned, that the dog would do a "bolt & run" maneuver and it would come apart. Don't want any legal challenges.

Today I'll go to the Tandy store and have them do a one-on-one with me, see if they can get it to hold properly. I'm still awaiting my SLC double cap order, should arrive next week. And I may pick up a package of Chicago screws while at Tandy today. Anyways, I'm working on several options and do appreciate the comments.

[TomG]

Still.. the main point is that with a dog collar, the ring should have the leather going through it and then folded back around to hold it in place.  Or a keeper strap riveted in place. Just like the keeper loop on a belt.

And never, ever, ever put an economy, non-welded D-ring on a collar.  

Later 

[Mike516]

1 hour ago, TomG said:

Still.. the main point is that with a dog collar, the ring should have the leather going through it and then folded back around to hold it in place.  Or a keeper strap riveted in place. Just like the keeper loop on a belt.

And never, ever, ever put an economy, non-welded D-ring on a collar.  

Later 

Right. There are dogs that are so big and strong that no matter what you do you may not be able to keep him from breaking a welded D ring or tearing the leather or breaking a rivet etc. There are always going to be those little imperfections in that one piece out of a million hardware or strap. I make every effort to make every collar as strong as possible. That doesn't mean I don't worry about a collar failing.

[nevadabob]

Went to the Tandy store, the nice lady showed me her setting technique, and of course, it came out perfectly. I did leave the store with a bag of Chicago screws. From a product liability standpoint I'm thinking using the screws is the best and strongest option. I just don't want a powerful dog somehow popping loose a rivet and causing harm.

[sos]

Chicago screws are great for strength, I do some suspension pieces with metal washers on both sides and then a leather setting to cover the metal when I know it will get a lot of wear ... make sure you use a bit of the locktite stuff ... there's different strengths, https://www.amazon.com/Loctite-38653-Purple-Strength-6-milliliter/dp/B0002KKTT0/182-2755863-8864510?ie=UTF8&*Version*=1&*entries*=0

[nevadabob]

I went ahead and made 5 leashes using the Tandy Chicago screws. I used contact cement as a Locktite substitute. I did receive my SLC double cap rapid rivet order. They look beefier than the Tandy rapid rivets I was using. Haven't tried them yet. I did place an order on ebay for the House of Paws Chicago screws. Received 50 for $15 with free shipping. Seems like the best price available. Again thank you to all who responded to my 911 plea! Very valuable info for a newbie like me.

Edited June 2, 2016 by nevadabob