Best machine for non leather application

[stickandtin]

As the title implies, this is a non leather sewing question. However this site is the best on the net to get help. I'm looking for suggestions on what machine would be best to sew up to medium weight fabric. For heavy fabric, marine vinyl, some leather etc we have a Juki 1541S which we absolutely love. Appreciate any help.

[gottaknow]

I'm a big fan of the Juki 9010 series. Needle feed with several sub-classes. The differences between them is really just the feed dogs and throat plate. The "A" sub-class is the heaviest. 

Regards, Eric 

[brmax]

Eric if you will, can you give some insight with the new 9010 Juki briefly and possibly the older models I sometimes see with interest the 550 or 5550 series. This is really part of the interest in the last month with the Singer 157, appreciated this early morn as coffee is not done : )

Thanks and good day

Floyd 

[gottaknow]

The 9010's were the follow up to the 5000 series needle feeds. We're still using the 5410's, which are still a good machine. Like most garment machines of that age, they require running at high speed to pump oil to the top shaft. A few bobbin windings at speed accomplish this. The new 9010's have Juki's new dry head system which is a series of small reservoirs for a lightweight grease. This is to reduce the oil spotting on textiles. My 9010's have top shaft mounted DC motors which are very strong. No belts, no table mounted motors.  I don't know if they offer the machine without this, using a conventional motor setup. The control box is their 920 series which has every feature known to man with more than 100 programmable options. Low speed is decent, and even new operators have no trouble getting used to it. We sew 26oz. heavy wool, (Pendleton) and with a size 21 needle will easily sew 6-7 ply. We have the A series, which is the heaviest, but with a feed dog change (finer tooth) and matching throat plate you could easily sew two ply of nylon. They will tension T90 bonded easily, down to T35. They use standard presser feet so the options are many. The needle class is 135x7. We use size 14 thru 22. I like Juki's for the simple reason that parts are so available and cheap. My Japan made 5410's have endured 15 years of heavy factory use. They use a sump reservoir for oil, where the 9010's have a closed oil system for the lower shaft and feeds. 

Regards, Eric 

[stickandtin]

Eric, thanks for the recommendation. We don't do full time production work so the 9010 is way more machine than we need. Currently we do upholstery part time. The 1541S is perfect for that. However we are looking into getting a different machine for non upholstery projects using light to medium weight materials. We have been at this 14 months so still new and trying to educate ourselves on the best machines(new or used)for the right applications. 

[gottaknow]

55 minutes ago, stickandtin said:

Eric, thanks for the recommendation. We don't do full time production work so the 9010 is way more machine than we need. Currently we do upholstery part time. The 1541S is perfect for that. However we are looking into getting a different machine for non upholstery projects using light to medium weight materials. We have been at this 14 months so still new and trying to educate ourselves on the best machines(new or used)for the right applications. 

There are some older Singers which you may want to check into. The 211G151 and the 281-22. Both are needle feed, the 211 has a vertical hook and the 281's have a horizontal hook. The 211 will handle more thickness. The 281 series has several other subclasses that are drop feed, so stick with the -22 subclass. These machines are widely available because so many factories used them. They also run forever and parts are available and cheap. The 281's use an oil sump, the 211's have a small oil reservoir in the top arm and the hook saddle. There is some hand oiling required, but nothing major.   The heads of both models are worth $200-400 depending on condition. The 211's are easier to find.  

Regards, Eric 

[stickandtin]

Eric, thanks for the recommendation. I looked up the specs on the 211G and see it doesn't have reverse. Did singer make a 211 model with reverse? What's your opinion of the juki DDL5550N set up with a servo?

[gottaknow]

The 211G157 has reverse and is a needle feed. It's standard needle class is 135x17.

The Juki DDL550N is a drop feed that is certainly a nice machine. It won't sew the thickness of the 211G157 because of the needle length and not being a needle feed. In light to medium weight woven material it will sew really nice.

Regards, Eric

[brmax]

Thanks Eric I will keep my eye out for this model as well, it seems a younger relative to my 212g144, I would think.  And with that I would like to get an extra pressure foot, though for using only a single needle for some occasions. If one has a part number handy at a breakpoint that would be cool, would most definitely deserve a pat on the back and! a "you Rock!"

Appreciate your help there, have a good day

Floyd

[stickandtin]

What are the advantages/disadvantages of needle feed and drop feed? Not finding any information comparing the two. What's the presser foot lift on the 211G157?

[gottaknow]

On a drop feed machine, only the feed dogs advance the fabric. The needle moves straight up and down. With a needle feed, the needle bar and feed dogs move together to advance the material. Much more positive feed and helps prevent ply shift with stickier materials (vinyl). It also helps when crossing seams.

On my 211G157's, I set the presser foot lift for 1/2". They'll go higher, but I've never needed them to.

Regards, Eric

[stickandtin]

Eric, thanks so much for all the help. The 211G157 sounds like the machine we need. Now, where to find one? 

[stickandtin]

After a week of searching the net, can't find a single 211G157 for sale. Anybody have any recommendations where to look? Also wanted to be a little more specific on what I'm initially wanting this machine for. I restore vintage travel trailers, mainly silver streaks, airstreams, streamlines and avions. Most of the curtains in these trailers are higher quality thicker drapery material with a thermal lining. More often than not the curtains need replacing. Most of these curtains are pinch pleated. In other types of trailers I restore(canned ham style), the curtains are made of thinner material with a backing material. Thus my question about a machine to handle light to medium weight fabrics. I have been farming the work out but since my wife started doing upholstery work, I figured why not sew the curtains. Back to my original question, is a needle feed/drop feed like the 211G157 the best machine for this application or should I be looking for a different kind of machine. I would like to find a good used one and not have to spend $2-3,000 on a new one. Wife says whatever we get, it has to have reverse LOL. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

[gottaknow]

A drop feed and needle feed are two different machines. I would look for a needle feed, forget about using a drop feed. I have always freelanced machine repair even though I do it full time. I've serviced a lot of drapery shops over the years including a woman who specialized in high dollar insulated drapes. If I recall, she used a Brother 700 something series needle feed. Very smooth machine, handled everything she through at it, and it had reverse. It was a garment machine with an oil sump, much like the Singer 281-22 which doesn't have reverse. They were made in Japan and like most machines coming out of Japan in the 80's and 90's, they all had reverse. There are a lot of models of older Brothers that were needle feed. Parts are still available, and because you don't really need a walking foot, the price will be reasonable. Do some googling and you'll see a lot of that era Brothers for sale.

Regards, Eric

[stickandtin]

Ok, so a straight needle feed with reverse(for the wife) is what I should be looking for. Thanks again Eric!!

[mikesc]

 

Quote

Ok, so a straight needle feed with reverse(for the wife) is what I should be looking for

Is she aware of the impending exchange..traditionally it is camels..

[leecopp]

Only somewhat on topic - Needle feed machines..

 

I have 3 needle feed machines and they are among my favorite hobbyist machines

1.  Singer 21w180  -  a compound feed which is an ancestor of the 111W151 (uses same bobbins and feet)

Someone rode her hard for a while .. but she is still sewing well.   https://sites.google.com/site/oldironmachines/home/singer-21w180  .  Retains Wheeler and Wilson tension components. Pretty sounding gear train. Running on a 1890s W&W Domestic Treadle.

2. Singer 78-1 - Needle feed only. Sews medium to heavy cloth.  Bobbin and Shuttle very similar/same to 31-15. Weird, hard to find feet.  Runs well under foot power.

picture from the web, mine looks better ..grin .. Runs up to V92 without issues.  Replaces my 31-15 except for top stitching feet and roller foot.

 ---   

 

3. I am also the foster parent of a Davis Mfg A, vertical feed (needle feed) Machine,  Sews pretty nicely, but has a weird long bobbin vibrating shuttle and can only handle up to V69 thread. Seems to be a very rare machine.

https://sites.google.com/site/oldironmachines/home/davis-manufacturing-a   Only comes out on holidays.

 

Lee in Florida

[stickandtin]

Lee, thank you for the reply and the pics. Since we bought our first machine from Bob at Toledo Industrial, I called to see if they had any used needle feeds with reverse. Talked with Bobby and he said they had several but none with reverse. He then told me Cowboy makes a needle feed, the Cowboy 538. Anybody on here have any experience with this machine?

[gottaknow]

No experience with any of the CowBoy machines, but the advantage of new is the support. On used machines, you're on your own with just the support of a bunch of guys on an online forum.  It looks to be a fine machine and certainly bound to have a better price point than a new Juki. I can tell you the reason a lot of older machines don't have a backtack feature is simply because in the factories, a backtack was simple to accomplish by reaching the end of a seam, lifting the foot slightly and pulling the material back enough to overlap 3 or 4 stitches. The operators were very accomplished at this, often faster than a manual backtack lever because their hands never left the material. Singer waited a long time to add backtacks to a lot of their machines. The machines made in Japan included it as standard much earlier. Juki, Consew, Brother, Mitsubishi etc.

Regards, Eric

[stickandtin]

Eric, you make a valid point about dealer support when buying a new machine. Bob at Toledo industrial has been great to work with after buying our Juki from him. We have pretty much decided to buy the cowboy 538. Thanks to everyone who took the time to post help, opinions, photos and advice.

[gottaknow]

5 minutes ago, stickandtin said:

Eric, you make a valid point about dealer support when buying a new machine. Bob at Toledo industrial has been great to work with after buying our Juki from him. We have pretty much decided to buy the cowboy 538. Thanks to everyone who took the time to post help, opinions, photos and advice.

That's cool! I think you'll like the results of a needle feed machine on what you're sewing. They are very versatile. 

Regards, Eric