Consew won't "stitch" with smaller needle

[MG513]

Hey guys, long time no talk! 

Been ghost the past few months but I've made considerable progress in my sewing and shoemaking ventures. Photos to follow in another post!

Anyway, I have a Consew 206rb. After having my machine for over 6 months, I up and decided to change out my needle, as I thought maybe it was dull and could help me avoid the occasional skipped stitch. Low and behold, I had been stitching everything with a size 22 organ needle! Now, I wasn't too upset about this, as all my work up until that point looked fairly decent. The issue comes in when I input a size 16 needle, which from my understanding is the correct needle for sewing leather, which is what I do pretty exclusively. Smaller needle = smaller hole, which gives a cleaner looking stitch. I thought I was winning, until the needle refused to actually "stitch". I'm using white 69 bonded nylon thread on some white cow leather about 3oz thick. The needle is feeding in the upper tension and the bobbin, but it's not locking the stitch, so when I stop sewing, there is just holes in my leather but no thread, on the top or bottom. Even more interesting, when I went to see on a different piece of scrap Horween leather about the same thickness, it worked fine!

Any ideas on why this is? Does my needle really just not like this leather, or should I be making an adjustment somewhere? Stitching about 8 spi. 

Attached a photo of the leather I'm sewing with the size 22 needle just to give you an idea of what it looks like. Thanks

 

[gottaknow]

If the hook in your machine is set to sew with a size 22 needle, going down to a size 16 will place the hook too far away from the needle. The hook will need to be moved closer to the needle and re-timed. Your hook is simply missing the loop that forms when your needle rises.

Regards, Eric

[MG513]

1 minute ago, gottaknow said:

If the hook in your machine is set to sew with a size 22 needle, going down to a size 16 will place the hook too far away from the needle. The hook will need to be moved closer to the needle and re-timed. Your hook is simply missing the loop that forms when your needle rises.

Regards, Eric

Thanks a lot Eric! So is this something that can easily be adjusted? When you say timing that makes me think off lots of tedious work, not that I don't think I'm capable, but I just don't know what I'm doing. 

also, this still leaves the question of why did it sew one type of leather just fine and not at all for this one?

In short, do I basically need to stick to needles size 20 and up?

[gottaknow]

In most cases, whatever the size needle your machine was set to, that's ideal. However, you can usually go up a size and down a size without issue, sometimes more. If you have a 20, see how it acts. If it's ok, try an 18. If you reset your hook, pick the needle size you want to use the most. On that machine, I'd set it to an 18 which would allow you to use a 16 and a 20 without issue. Your machine is fairly easy to move the hook closer if you need to. You can download a manual from http://www.consew.com/Resources/

Regards, Eric

[MG513]

7 minutes ago, gottaknow said:

In most cases, whatever the size needle your machine was set to, that's ideal. However, you can usually go up a size and down a size without issue, sometimes more. If you have a 20, see how it acts. If it's ok, try an 18. If you reset your hook, pick the needle size you want to use the most. On that machine, I'd set it to an 18 which would allow you to use a 16 and a 20 without issue. Your machine is fairly easy to move the hook closer if you need to. You can download a manual from http://www.consew.com/Resources/

Regards, Eric

I don't have a 20, just the 22 that was in the machine and the 16s I bought shortly after I got it. 

I I will try the 20 and 18 as you suggested, and I will check out that link for moving the hook as well. 

I'm getting into shoemaking and I'm just trying to get my machine to hold me over until I can afford a post bed. Thanks for the help!

[mikesc]

@MG513 btw ..anyone who blocks scripts from sites other than leatherworker.net like I do( and probably many others who do not want facebook or instagram tracking them all over the web ) cannot see the picture that you inserted above..I had to look in the HTML page source to see where it was being called from, better to upload images to leatherworker.net so that anyone who comes here can see them without having to allow 3rd party networks onto their computers..

[MG513]

2 minutes ago, mikesc said:

@MG513 btw ..anyone who blocks scripts from sites other than leatherworker.net like I do( and probably many others who do not want facebook or instagram tracking them all over the web ) cannot see the picture that you inserted above..I had to look in the HTML page source to see where it was being called from, better to upload images to leatherworker.net so that anyone who comes here can see them without having to allow 3rd party networks onto their computers..

Mike thanks for letting me know that. 

I tried uploading the photo the regular way, unfortunately the leather workers photo upload size is simply way too small, and after cropping my photo several times it was still way too big, so it is what it is. This upload size is simply way too small and it would be great if the forum allowed for bigger. Until then I'm not sure what else can be done. Also if ppl think Facebook and Instagram are the only ways they can be tracked on the Internet, I'm afraid they are sadly mistaken lol. 

[mikesc]

 

Quote

Also if ppl think Facebook and Instagram are the only ways they can be tracked on the Internet, I'm afraid they are sadly mistaken lol. 

Not the only way ( no-one said that they thought that,  ) by any means, but ( as someone who has been involved in programming and computers since 1972, and who also has another business specialising in computer security , I'd say why allow fb or instagram or anyone to track you, or me, or anyone visiting or posting to try to help you ? ) ..leatherworker.net allow uploads of 1.46mb, that is plenty big enough,(  hosting large amounts of data , on sites with large amounts of traffic ) costs large amounts of money, I know, I run a lot of websites..and pay hosting for all of them..

But..if you reduce the size of the data load in your images before uploading, ( it is  very easy to do, will take you less than 30 seconds ), plenty of free software and apps to do that for you, or that you can use, depending on your platform..if you are on windows I'd recommend irfanview..on linux "gimp"..apple, I don't know, I don't use any apple gear ( but I have 10 computers here ) and a bunch of smartphones and tablets )..cropping reduces the physical size of the image, it doesn't reduce the data size by much unless you crop a huge amount..but saving as a jpeg , and adjusting the degree of "lossiness" will allow for a huge reduction in data size..

Edited June 20, 2016 by mikesc

[MG513]

Found an app to compress! 

Photo should be viewable now!

[mikesc]

Indeed it is visible now :)..and those are very small holes..you said above you changed the "needle"..it is a single needle machine ? if so, your stitching is real accurate on the second rows, looks like a twin needle was there..

[MG513]

1 minute ago, mikesc said:

Indeed it is visible now :)..and those are very small holes..you said above you changed the "needle"..it is a single needle machine ? if so, your stitching is real accurate on the second rows, looks like a twin needle was there..

Thanks a lot, but my stitching actually looks like crap lol. I mean it looks 5 star in certain angles, other places it looks like a 5 year old mashed the peddle. But I've only been sewing for a few months so I'm proud of my progress thus far. Next step is saving for a post bed because I just can't see where I'm going on a flatbed cuz my foot is in the way. 

And yes a consew 206 is a flat bed single needle

[mikesc]

Quote

And yes a consew 206 is a flat bed single needle

That is what I thought was the case, especially given your other thread I replied in about the tension discs and the pin /post, but as I see very few Consew machines here, wondered if there was not some variant or subclass that was a twin needle, specially as a lot of shoemakers seem to like double needle machines, that said, I know guy not far from me who makes leather and wooden "Sabots" ( kind of traditional Breton Clog* ) for kids, real cute they look too he uses Pfaff single needle walking foot flat bed and a Pfaff cylinder arm...the uppers are nailed to the wooden soles..

Some Breton Sabots were like the Dutch ones, entirely made from wood, carved out and then decorated and stuffed with straw in place of socks, my Parents in law ( deceased now ) both wore these until the 1970s , they had leather shoes aswell, but like many people, their leather shoes / boots were kept for best "wearing to church"  on a Sunday..real all leather shoes were really expensive compared to a wage in the countryside back then, even basic ones..

[Colt W Knight]

5 hours ago, MG513 said:

Thanks a lot, but my stitching actually looks like crap lol. I mean it looks 5 star in certain angles, other places it looks like a 5 year old mashed the peddle. But I've only been sewing for a few months so I'm proud of my progress thus far. Next step is saving for a post bed because I just can't see where I'm going on a flatbed cuz my foot is in the way. 

And yes a consew 206 is a flat bed single needle

I have had my Consew for a year, and I am just now learning how to use it right. I thought sewing was going to be easy.

 

[dikman]

6 hours ago, Colt W Knight said:

 I thought sewing was going to be easy.

 

[MG513]

11 hours ago, Colt W Knight said:

I have had my Consew for a year, and I am just now learning how to use it right. I thought sewing was going to be easy.

 

Lol. Now I did know better than that. 

But progress is progress! It would just be great if I could use this size 16 without having to make adjustments. But such is life!

[Wizcrafts]

1 hour ago, MG513 said:

Lol. Now I did know better than that. 

But progress is progress! It would just be great if I could use this size 16 without having to make adjustments. But such is life!

I think a #18 will serve you better, with #69 bonded thread. I rarely ever use a #16 needle except for super thin material using cotton or polyester garment sewing thread. Technically speaking, a #16 will allow #69 thread to flow through the eye, but it is tighter than would be with a #18.

My actual working range of needles for this type of machine is from #18 through 23, covering thread sizes 69 through 138. I use #18 or #19 with bonded 69 thread. I use a #19 or #20 with #92 bonded, or #80 polyester jeans thread. I use a #22 or #23 needle with #138 thread.

[MG513]

21 minutes ago, Wizcrafts said:

I think a #18 will serve you better, with #69 bonded thread. I rarely ever use a #16 needle except for super thin material using cotton or polyester garment sewing thread. Technically speaking, a #16 will allow #69 thread to flow through the eye, but it is tighter than would be with a #18.

My actual working range of needles for this type of machine is from #18 through 23, covering thread sizes 69 through 138. I use #18 or #19 with bonded 69 thread. I use a #19 or #20 with #92 bonded, or #80 polyester jeans thread. I use a #22 or #23 needle with #138 thread.

I've been waiting on you to comment! Thanks!

Ok I will stick to an 18 then. I'll just save these 16s for whenever I get my post roller. I do plan to make some wallets very soon, so I guess I will use this #22 for the 138 as you've suggested. 

So do I still need to adjust my hook like Eric recommended?? 

[Wizcrafts]

1 minute ago, MG513 said:

I've been waiting on you to comment! Thanks!

Ok I will stick to an 18 then. I'll just save these 16s for whenever I get my post roller. I do plan to make some wallets very soon, so I guess I will use this #22 for the 138 as you've suggested. 

So do I still need to adjust my hook like Eric recommended?? 

You will find that out shortly after changing to a #18 needle ;-)

Most upholstery grade machines are set up to use from #18 through #22 needles. I think your machine will be fine with a #18. If not, try tweaking the position of the check spring, or its travel. This little spring keeps the top thread taut as the take-up lever moves down. When it lets go can affect the quality of the loop that forms on the right side of the needle, as it begins its ascent from BDC.. The broader the loop, the less chance you have of getting skipped stitches.

[MG513]

2 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

You will find that out shortly after changing to a #18 needle ;-)

Most upholstery grade machines are set up to use from #18 through #22 needles. I think your machine will be fine with a #18. If not, try tweaking the position of the check spring, or its travel. This little spring keeps the top thread taut as the take-up lever moves down. When it lets go can affect the quality of the loop that forms on the right side of the needle, as it begins its ascent from BDC.. The broader the loop, the less chance you have of getting skipped stitches.

I was with you up until that last paragraph haha. Im just going to buy the size 18s and see where it takes me first. 

While i I have an audience, what are your thoughts on decorative needles?? I found a cool link online describing some needle types that can make different types of holes in leather. I thought these needles could add a nice touch to my wallets since they will be machine stitched, although I plan to hand finish the ends of the thread. Are those speciality needles a no no for this machine?? Could it give me tension issues?