dgkfit Report post Posted June 30, 2016 hello y'all, i have a silly question. i promise not to start my own sewing machine company with the answer. i am quite happy with my 441 clone. i have been told by more than one seller of them that they are made in the same chinese factory. they just put a different paint job on them, and do slight changes that the seller orders. and, service after the sale is the largest difference between them. just for curiosity, WHAT IS THE NAME OF THE COMPANY THAT MAKES THEM AND WHAT CITY IN CHINA ARE THEY MADE IN? thanks dale Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JLSleather Report post Posted June 30, 2016 What clone are you talking about? That may make a difference. But ya gotta admit, this does look a bit familiar ... http://en.czzgfr.com/products_detail/&productId=38609b12-f2e3-4329-b698-400632be621d.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MADMAX22 Report post Posted June 30, 2016 And there is probably more then one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Itch Report post Posted June 30, 2016 Sewpro,Stitchmaster,Artisan,Cowboy,just to name a few .. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MADMAX22 Report post Posted June 30, 2016 2 hours ago, Itch said: Sewpro,Stitchmaster,Artisan,Cowboy,just to name a few .. Those are all the guys who import the machines, they dont make them. Pretty sure the OP is asking about the company who actually makes the machines. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dgkfit Report post Posted June 30, 2016 hello, thank you for your replies. in particular, i am looking for the factory of cobra, cowboy, artisan, and nickosew in that order of curiosity. again, this is just for curiosity, nothing else. thank you dale Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Art Report post Posted June 30, 2016 Like most other business and "manufacturers" in China, that is not an easy question. For a particular "Line" or sewing machine distributor over here, their product line is probably produced in more than one "Factory". The parts for the machines are produced by many suppliers and the "Factories" put them together. Sometimes the product of a "Factory" is simply a relabeling of a product from another factory. Some of these outlying factories are somewhat specialized. For instance, one factory produces only Pfaff clones, and another Adler, and still another Juki, and then some of them are producing Mitsubishi clones AND OEM Mitsubishi machines. China is the Wild West as far as manufacturing goes and a US (or other country) importer has to balance between cost and quality. It is important to have an agent in China to coordinate and integrate between you and the Chinese factories/suppliers. Add to this the fact that a Factory could be gone tomorrow, literally, hell, they could be an empty building or making washing machines. Shanghai Huigong Sewing Machine Factory No.3 is the producer of Highlead machines and rebrands several others. As far as 441s go, I can't tell you who is making machines for whom. Parts are readily available and cheap. Please note that a machine you get in a box from China will need a half hour to an hour to make it ready. Sometimes parts aren't available and they freely substitute, it doesn't matter if it fits or works, they have a production schedule to meet. The "good" factories do this as readily as the "not so good" factories. The dealer will, "not worry about it", have the factory send new parts (often delaying dealer deliveries) which might take the dealer 2 or more hours to disassemble and install, or the dealer might not recognize that there is a problem, that's why we say go with a known dealer. If you want to know where the machine came from, ask the dealer, if he doesn't tell you, find another dealer. Art Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dgkfit Report post Posted July 2, 2016 just for curiosity, who in shanghai makes the cobra class 4 ? thank you dale Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Art Report post Posted July 2, 2016 Oh Boy, I recommended contacting the distributor, Cobra (Leather Machine Co.), but guess you don't trust them. When I was importing these machines, some of my suppliers were: Zhiqiang Sewing Machine Company, Ltd. Qing County, Hebei, China Zhejiang Tianning Motor Manufacturing Company, Ltd. No.4, Wenbao Road I, LiShui City, Zhejiang, China Zhejiang Qiaoyi Lamp Manufacturing Company, Ltd. No. 16, Yuhuan Industrial Area Zone, Zhejiang, China Fushan Table Top Manufacturing Company, Ltd. South of Fushan County, Fushan Jiangsu, China Shanghai Meisong Sewing Machine Company, Ltd. No.5025 Hangtang Road, Fengcheng County, Shanghai, China Zhejiang Zhiying Sewing Machine Parts Manufacturing Company, Ltd. Xiaying County, Yinzhou, Zhejiang, China Those are off my import manifests and government import documents, so it is pubic information somewhere in the overall bureaucratic repository, hopefully digitized. This is a complicated business, and having a representative over in China is almost an imperative. This is not a high margin business either, especially on the distributor/dealer end. Art Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dgkfit Report post Posted July 2, 2016 hello art, thank you for your reply. again, i do not intend to market sewing machines. i am just curious. thank you. dale Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
graywolf Report post Posted July 4, 2016 Speaking from hearsay: it seems like there are a few companies casting the housings (very expensive facility needed) and thousands of companies manufacturing parts. Parts ranging from better than OEM quality, to pot metal. Without that expert how can you tell what you are buying? On the other hand, not being much margin at the dealer level? I think it depends on the dealer, as I see the JUKI DNU-1541s (as an example) selling from $1300 to $2600. Now, I realize there may be a difference in the motor and table you are getting, but not that much. I am willing to believe that a good dealer checking out and adjusting everything may make the machine worth $1500~$1600, but not a thousand bucks more than that. It seems some dealers ARE making real good money! I will not get into used sewing machine sellers', except to say that almost anyone withing 100 miles of me wants more for their old worn out machine than I can buy a new one, including shipping, for. Sigh! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Art Report post Posted July 5, 2016 First of all, Chinese foundries are a thing of wonder and horror. If they had OSHA folks over there, well they would go yelling and screaming in terror from the foundry. Ditto some of the other factories. I imported leather working machines a few years ago, and know what they landed for and given all the work and marketing, there is enough room to pay everyone and the rent, but nobody's living high. Brand name machines are a little different, but places like Reliable keep dealers relatively honest. Frankly, some leather machine dealers are delivering 1,000 machines a year, some a lot less, and some a very few more. Some distributors that are also importers, and often sole importers, keep their prices high so as to not step on their dealers toes. There are so few leather machine dealers, their competition (especially on price) keeps the margins pretty thin. It's a business, you can make a living, it helps if the wife works. Art Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darren Brosowski Report post Posted July 5, 2016 The worldwide market for 441 machines is 2-3000 per year and by Chinese standards this is tiny. Several companies might assemble the parts but when you consider that the moulds for the casting cost $US50,000 there is only on company that is casting the bodies. The forge tooling for the two conrods is probably another $US10,000 so there is only one supplier. The important thing is who sets the machine up before it is delivered. Some work beautifully out of the box but others take a lot of work to get running. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
