What is an "Automatic Climbing Device"?

[graywolf]

Google brings up a lot of stuff about sewing things for rock climbing and the like, or ad's for sewing machines with them, but nothing I found that tells just what they do & how they work.

BTW (& off topic) those rock climbing forum have the same questions you guys do here. Only, think of it, you are hanging in the air 200 feet up and suddenly you realize someone, who knew nothing about sewing, used a $69 plastic sewing machine from Walmart to sew your webbing gear...

[Wizcrafts]

You probably need to know that the typical leather sewing machines, in use by the majority of leather crafters, are based on mechanical designs going back to anywhere from the early 1920s through the late 1980s. Some of the longest lasting and most copied walking foot machines are Singer 111 types, made from around WW2 through the 1980s, or so. Just about every walking foot machine is somehow based on the 111 feed system. So much information has been published about machines of this type that there is nothing new to tell. If one was to obtain the US Army field manuals for the Singer 111 type machines, it will bring you up to speed.

More modern developments were reverse levers, self oilers, large bobbins and various bells and whistles. The more up to date machines use a rotary stitch length dial and a push down reverse lever.

The huge harness machines are clones of the original and still produced Juki TSC-441. Thus, they are referred to as "441 clones." They all use an oscillating shuttle with a long hook, a pop open bobbin case attached to the shuttle and cylindrical bobbins that hold gobs of thread. These machines begin at the end of the regular walking foot machine ranges and go up from there. These are the types of machines that are normally used to make gun holsters, knife sheathes, weight lifters' belts and Police gear. They can handle very thick thread and use huge needles. A Juki 441 manual tells most of what needs to be known about the Chinese clones.

The Juki 441 was the Japanese answer to the German Adler 205 cylinder arm (and 204 flatbed) machine. It uses a similar shuttle and hook, as well as the same bobbins and needles as the 441 machines. The 441 sold for a couple thousand dollars less than the 205. When the Chinese began cloning both the Adler 205 and Juki 441, they sold them to dealers around the World at less than half the price of the originals. This left the dealers enough headroom to pay for the shipping and customs fees, then do the necessary uncrating, degreasing, assembly, oiling and setting up operations that consume anywhere from 2 to 6 hours (4 avg) - and still sell them for half the price of a Juki or Adler.

It took a very long time for walking foot development to move beyond these basic styles. The most recent improvements are seen in the brand new Adler 969 series. Weaver Leather sells these surreal machines, starting at almost 10 thousand dollars. This is triple what most people on this forum already think is too expensive for them.

[Colt W Knight]

Id love to try one of those new Adlers, the promo videos look amazing

[graywolf]

All of which says nothing about those automatic climbing devices. What I know about them is that machines advertised to have them have a large knob on top of the machine.

What I surmise is that they somehow make it easier to run over those large seam humps. But that is only, as I said, a surmise.

And, yes, Wiz, I know the 111 came out in 1901.

Edited July 10, 2016 by graywolf
added comment

[Wizcrafts]

Now I understand what Graywolf means by an "automatic climbing device." I have never heard of that advertising jargon until today. It is either a selling point from an ad agent, or perhaps a poor translation from German to English.

So, what is the knob on top of some walking foot machines?

Simply stated, this knob raises and lowers the inside alternating foot in relation to the outside presser foot. Because of the manner in which the two feet are interconnected, raising the inside foot also increases the lift of the outside foot. Lowering the inside foot with the big knob decreases the lift of the presser foot as well. In normal operation, one would set the alternating height to the minimum needed for everyday use. This might typically work out to about 1/8 inch, or 3.2mm. With that amount of lift the machine should easily climb onto the next layer of 7-8 ounce leather and back down. The machine will run more smoothly with lower amounts of alternating lift.

When the project contains different layers exceeding 1/8 inch, turning the top knob in the correct direction will greatly increase the lift of both feet. The enables it to climb up and down over differences possibly approaching a quarter inch on the new Adlers.

[graywolf]

Ah, thank you, Wiz.

 

[Wizcrafts]

The only thing automatic about this system is that raising the inside foot automatically also increases the lift of the presser foot. Older systems usually need to have a bolt loosened and a crank moved up or down to accomplish the same effect. The term Automatic is marketing jargon. A truly automatic walking foot mechanism would sense the difference in height (up or down) and change the lift ratio on the fly, by itself, then back again to the optimal setting.

[Darren Brosowski]

To save $US7k most people will handwheel through and use the presser foot lift if they have to.

 

[Gregg From Keystone Sewing]

Just to follow up a bit and add to Wiz's comments, see attached.  This is an example of the climb adjustment found on many, many walking foot machines.  Older Singers have a fixed hinge screw and a worm gear eccentric that rides across the top shaft in some cases, but again, same thing.  Some machines have a large mechanical dial on top to perform the same adjustment that is easier for the operator to adjust on the fly.  In addition to all that, there are electronic solenoids or pneumatic controls that can do this automatically when certain conditions are met on the programming of the control box, or where the user can push a button off or on for preset settings that are higher or lower foot lift.  

Edited July 15, 2016 by Gregg From Keystone Sewing

[graywolf]

Thanks for that info Gregg, I would imagine the benifit of the knob on top is that you can easily turn it back to its previous setting. While adjusting the internal mechanism is probably a "b" to get back to the proper setting.

As for the $7K someone mentioned the new Consew P1541S-cc  (Juki 1541S clone) has it, and they are in the $1400 range. That is where I came across the "automatic climbing device" description, by the way. I wonder if that "-cc" means "climbing control"?

Wiz is probably right about the advertising writers thing. The only thing a word they use seems to mean is that they thought the word sounded cool.

[Wizcrafts]

The CC in the new Consew brochures means "Consew Consolidated" - the name of the company. They are throwing in that designation to draw more attention to the newer machines. Advertising jargon.

[graywolf]

So, it stands for "Consolidated Sewing Consolidated"? Even for advertising types that seems kind of convoluted. And why would they need to do that when they are already calling them their "Premier" line, hence the "P"?

[Gregg From Keystone Sewing]

By model code key, it should be CD instead of CC?

[graywolf]

No clues here, definately the Consew P1541S-CC, but the downloadable manual does not show the climbing device in it.

On the other hand the Consew site calls it an "Adjustable Climbing Device", unlike some ads I have seen.

LINK

Wiz's description of how it works dose seem accurate, and matches the guy at the local dealer's explanation.

Edited July 18, 2016 by graywolf