Stitching and punching?

[Invare]

Hey guy's

So I'm newer to leather work and want to start making my own designs instead of just using kits. however when stitching in the past the holes have always been there. Now I have a few ideas in mind where I'll have to punch my own holes but I'm not sure what tools to use or how to go about it.  Thank you

[JMWendt]

Get a stitching wheel and a groover.  Also get a diamond awl.  That's all you need.  Except for callouses and patience.

[Red Bear Haraldsson]

Substitute cuss words for patience until you build up enough patience to go all the way around the project.
Nigel Armitage has some good videos on saddlestitching, on youtube, he's loads of help.

[Invare]

Thank you guys I appreciate the help

[bikermutt07]

I started with a stitching wheel and a hole punch. I had the groover as well but it seemed to create more problems then it solved.

I had watched a lot ofGrierwolfe's videos. He makes sheathes. He has a nice six part series that helped me a bunch.

The hole punch method I thought was pretty easy to start out with, then I moved on to saddle stitching with the diamond awl.

Have fun.

[Acydtrip]

14 hours ago, Red Bear Haraldsson said:

Substitute cuss words for patience until you build up enough patience to go all the way around the project.
Nigel Armitage has some good videos on saddlestitching, on youtube, he's loads of help.

Decades of experience and my stitching improved more than I could imagine (from hack to more than passable) in two practice sessions after watching, listening, and absorbing what Mr Armitage had to say. 

A poor craftsman blames his tools, but I'd say one of the biggest things was to order up the same thread and needles he uses, it was like night and day.  I planned to buy some Seiwa chisels as he mentions in other videos, but bought some $15 ones off Amazon, spent a half hour polishing them up and I'm plenty happy, but I still do much of the work with an overstitch wheel and an awl.

Trip

[MADMAX22]

I use a pricking wheel and awl when hand stitching, one of these days I may try the pricking irons just havnt had a use for them yet. Guess they help with the awl stabbing. 

My word of advice is get a awl and look up some of the sharpening videos on them. Having a sharp awl is key. Armitage has a decent video of sharpening them. Once you get an awl that will punch thru a couple layers of 8oz vegtan with relative ease it will make sewing things much easier. It also allows you to concentrate on your stitching instead of fighting your awl and getting frustrated with the results. 

Using a awl for stitching and lacing will significantly improve how your stitching/lacing looks on your projects over punching holes IMHO.

[gdonovan]

I buy sheets of flimsy cardboard, draw out half my pattern using a center line (if the pattern is symmetrical) and dividers to mark out my holes. Start on your center line using half the distance (for your first hole only) you want your stitch spacing to be then lightly work your way up to your finishing point. Once you have worked out the correct spacing press the dividers through the cardboard. Careful that the dividers don't move by going back from time to time to make sure the spacing hasn't changed, this will screw up your pattern. Once you have established the stitch spacing, use an awl to punch through the cardboard.

When I have half the project cut with holes marked I very lightly score the cardboard center line and fold it over to trace out the other half, mark the holes and cut it. The gusset length can be determined by counting the amount of holes and using the dividers again (with the same stitch length). Again I use a center line (length ways and if you like width ways as well) to assure symmetry on the gusset. Triple check your hole count. The length of your stitching may take some head scratching but try it on a scrap piece first to see how the stitch looks.

I always mark my patterns front and back so I am reminded to flip the pattern over when tracing it onto the hide.

I can understand why most people would not do things this way because there is a lot of hole punching and it takes time but it's the small hole on the punch and an easy squeeze. Invest in a good hole punch if you don't already have one where the hole punches can be unscrewed (you may eventually want to unscrew the small hole on the punch to replace it with an even smaller diameter one)....many of my bag patterns have over 600 holes! lol

I hope this helps.

Cheers

[zuludog]

Surf YouTube; there are loads of videos, especially those by Armitage, and Leodis Leather

Armitage does a video called How to make a simple Wallet, or something like that. It is actually a good introduction to any leatherwork

You will need 2 awls; round aka scratch, and diamond cross section known as a harness or saddler's awl. Round is less important to start

Don't be tempted by the 4 - in - 1 awl sold by Tandy and others. It's not very good, and it's expensive. You're better off getting 2 fixed blade awls. Warning! Your harness awl must be as sharp as possible. Don't use it to scratch patterns, round/scratch awls are cheap enough to buy, or you could make your own from just about anything sharp & pointy

I've used Tandy's Craftool Awl # 83020 - 00, and I think it's quite good, as good as anything to start off with. I think it's on offer at the moment

I prefer a stitching chisel to a pricking wheel. (I think this is a common American/European preference). Note that there are 3 similar tools

A pricking chisel or pricking iron has shallow points just to mark the position of the holes. You make the holes by following up with an awl

A stitching chisel has longer prongs which you knock through the leather to make the holes, though sometimes you have to do a bit of extra work with an awl. the prongs are diamond shaped section to give you the saddle stitch pattern. 

A lacing chisel has flat prongs for sewing with thongs or lace; you only use this if you do lacing

Get a book on leathercraft, or 'The Art of Hand Sewing Leather' by Al Stohlman

For cutting leather get a cutting mat, the common green plastic thing, as big as you can manage, they're cheap enough. In Britain you can get a display card of disposeable snap-blade knives very cheaply from discount stores; must be something similar in USA

Don't buy a strop! They're easy & cheap enough to make yourself

Best wishes   Zuludog

[silverwingit]

Forget stitching wheels and awls, especially for a beginner. Not necessary if you use a Japanese-style stitching chisel. Much quicker, easier and more regular on the front and back. It takes a lot of skill to use an awl. That requires lots pf practice. You can start using stitching chisels immediately. Nigel reviews a bunch. I like Seiwas. They are good quality and inexpensive. You can get a full set for half the price of a single European pricking iron and they punch all the way through the leather instead of just marking hole locations. This is a good company to deal with.

https://www.leathercrafttools.com/tools/punch/diamond-hole-punch/list.jsp

I haven't used an awl in a long time except when the leather I am stitching is thicker than the length of the Seiwa chisel's tines. Then I just use it to penetrate the leather fully by extending the depth of the chisel holes.

A bit of time taken polishing the chisels makes them even easier to use.

I really like my CS Osborne palm awls. Great little chuck and nice feel to the handles. Also inexpensive. I actually like to use them better than my Barry King awl handle which is a full-on work of art. I stitch wet-formed pouches and need to get right next to the side of  the protruding pouch. The CS Osborne palm awl haft's chuck is smaller than Barry's and let's me do that without marking the protruding pouch.

http://www.csosborne.com/no142.htm

The next thing you should get is some Tiger thread. I'll leave that up to you.

Michelle

[CaptQuirk]

 

Get a stitching wheel and a groover.  Also get a diamond awl.  That's all you need.  Except for callouses and patience.

And BandAids... Lots of BandAids. And maybe a something to bite and scream into, when the awl goes through the leather AND your finger, and the wife is sleeping.

[Michael Sheldon]

I learned with a stitching wheel and awl, and that's what I used for years.

But frankly, unless you're going through more than 3/16" to 1/4" total thickness, I'd go for the Japanese-style stitching chisels. Much easier to use, and less blood. And, as is typical, skip the ones Tandy sells. They're not that good, and significantly over-priced. Do a search on Etsy, and you'll find dozens of sellers. Nigel Armitage has a video on using these and pricking irons.

I switched to using the chisels, and now only use the awl for very heavy pieces, and where laying the piece down flat is not possible.

[Windrider30]

First pardon my french but skip using an awl. I used mine for about 5 minutes and jammed it under my thumb nail. After teaching my wife and the neighborhood kids a few dozen new swear words i ripped the awl out of my thumb and tossed that evil ice pick out the door. Now i use...hear the collective gasp. ..Tandy's pricking irons and love them to death. 

I do want to get a set that is 9spi but yes tandy's are a bit expensive but i love mine. What you really need is a pair of wing dividers and a set of good pricking irons and band aids as you will still put an iron through your finger once in a while...leaves a nice square hole in you.

I set my wingdivider  to an 1/8 of an inch (once in a great while just a bit more than an 1/8th depending on my project and leather thickness) then again depending on my project i use my...collective gasp..Tandy groover to run a neat line down the line my wing divider just made. The groover just protects the thread a little bit better. Then use my pricking iron and my mallet and try not to hit my hand with my mallet cuse that makes me scream out sumdabitch that hurts and the 6 year old neighbor kid has my southern accent down to a tea...funny to hear a 6 year old auzzie kid scream that out in a southern twang!!! The go about doing my saddle stitching. And i honestly believe after all of my projects...one messenger bag which took me 28 hours in hand stitching alone...I can claim to be an "expert " at hand stitching.

[Matt S]

 

First pardon my french but skip using an awl. I used mine for about 5 minutes and jammed it under my thumb nail. After teaching my wife and the neighborhood kids a few dozen new swear words i ripped the awl out of my thumb and tossed that evil ass ice pick out the door. Now i use...hear the collective gasp. ..Tands pricking irons and love them to death. 

I do want to get a set that is 9spi but yes tandys are a bit expensive but i love mine. What you really need is a pair of wing dividers and a set of good pricking irons and band aids as you will still put an iron through your finger once in a while...leaves a nice square hole in you.

I set my wingdivider  to an 1/8 of an inch (once in a great while just a bit more than an 1/8th depending on my project and leather thickness) then again depending on my project i use my...collective gasp..Tandy groover to run a neat line down the line my wing divider just made. The groover just protects the thread a little bit better. Then use my pricking iron and my mallet and try not to hit my hand with my mallet cuse that makes me scream out sumdabitch that hurts and the 6 year old neighbor kid has my southern accent down to a tea...funny to hear a 6 year old auzzie kid scream that out in a southern twang!!! The go about doing my saddle stitching. And i honestly believe after all of my projects...one messenger bag which took me 28 hours in hand stitching alone...I can claim to be an "expert " at hand stitching.

A messenger bag took you 28 hours of stitching? I'd better buy those Tandy irons cos single gusset satchels only take me an hour to stitch with an awl. Maybe, if I practice real hard I can get it up to 28 and become an expert like you.

[Windrider30]

 

A messenger bag took you 28 hours of stitching? I'd better buy those Tandy irons cos single gusset satchels only take me an hour to stitch with an awl. Maybe, if I practice real hard I can get it up to 28 and become an expert like you.

The main reason it took 28 hours to stitch is due to the size and the amount of stitching over all, not to mention I decided to try something new, no typical 90 degree edge on the gussets or bottom simply stitching them together, gave it a really cool looking round edge, bloody nightmare to get the leather to bend around the corners let me tell you. Came out really nice though and it is all leather, no metal closures.  Bag in question https://gibbinthegremlin.com/collections/messenger-bags/products/dark-brown-leather-messenger-bag  Though I will freely admit I like using a 90 degree angle because then you do not have to fight the leather. As this design does not really allow for you to glue the leather in place. As I said before I hand stitch everything I do, I use no machines what so ever on my projects, old school is a slow process but love the end result. Oh and the 28 hours does not include the 15 minutes or so of punching holes, using a pricking iron is WAY faster then using an awl and at least for me safer because man that thing hurts when you jam an awl underneath your nail!!!

Edited August 23, 2016 by Windrider30

[Matt S]

 

The main reason it took 28 hours to stitch is due to the size and the amount of stitching over all, not to mention I decided to try something new, no typical 90 degree edge on the gussets or bottom simply stitching them together, gave it a really cool looking round edge, bloody nightmare to get the leather to bend around the corners let me tell you. Came out really nice though and it is all leather, no metal closures.  Bag in question https://gibbinthegremlin.com/collections/messenger-bags/products/dark-brown-leather-messenger-bag  Though I will freely admit I like using a 90 degree angle because then you do not have to fight the leather. As this design does not really allow for you to glue the leather in place. As I said before I hand stitch everything I do, I use no machines what so ever on my projects, old school is a slow process but love the end result.

That's a nice looking bag, and a lot of stitches. Stitching in the gusset to one of these usually takes me about an hour. That's only 60" of stitching at 7 SPI. The whole lot is English bridle leather, the high tallow content makes for a beautiful and functional bag but glues don't hold it much and the corners are super-fun, what with having to bend 90 degrees in two planes. You can't quite see it in the photo but the gusset is one long piece.

 

1" per minute is usual for me unless the leather is thicker than 1/2". Awls are fast but they require some practice, they need to be sharp and they need to be smooth. Tandy awls are, apparently, absolute junk. Can't say I've ever had the pleasure.

(Yes the upside-down buckle got corrected before the customer picked it up! :-p )

[Windrider30]

I have never had any problems, well it take that back did have one problem with one of the pricking irons, I bent the one single punch that it came with (I have this set https://www.tandyleather.com.au/en/product/diamond-hole-chisel-set ) I called them up when it happened and they said to send it back and they sent me a whole another kit free of charge. Other then that I really like the pricking irons they are fast and to be honest you can get away with out sharpening them for a while before you have to sharpen them again. Love the bag and I have yet to do a single gusset like that. Also how thick is that leather I have never used English bridle leather always thought that was more for horse tac then anything else.

[Matt S]

The front and back/top are 2.5-3mm shoulder, the gusset is 2mm belly. Makes each seam about 5mm thick so quite manageable. Yes bridle-finish was originally developed for use with horse gear, which is why it is firm, supple and water-resistant. These all make for great properties for general leather goods such as trouser belts, bags, cases, satchels... if you split it down it makes for great wallets and watch straps too. This stuff is from the last pit-tannery in the UK.

[Windrider30]

one other tool that you need that no one mentioned a good set of pliers some times its a real pain in the ass to pull the needle all the way thought the leather so its easier to grab the needle with a pair of pliers and give it that little bit of extra tug it needs to clear the hole!

[Michael Sheldon]

 

one other tool that you need that no one mentioned a good set of pliers some times its a real pain in the ass to pull the needle all the way thought the leather so its easier to grab the needle with a pair of pliers and give it that little bit of extra tug it needs to clear the hole!

True enough, though I generally only need it for backstitching. My preference is for a set of bent-nosed, smooth-jawed heavy needle-nose pliers. A thimble or stitching palm can also be useful in such cases. Though I've yet to find a thimble that's actually large enough for me.

Only problem with pliers is that they scratch up the surface of the needle, which increases drag, which makes the needle more likely to get stuck, which means you need the pliers....

Which does bring up a point. Use new needles frequently. Just because they aren't bent doesn't mean they aren't worn.

[CaptQuirk]

I use a pair of hemostats for pulling the needles... who knew they could work for that? I also break needles like you wouldn't believe, always at the eye. What does the stitching palm do?

[Michael Sheldon]

 

 

I use a pair of hemostats for pulling the needles... who knew they could work for that? I also break needles like you wouldn't believe, always at the eye. What does the stitching palm do?

A stitching palm has a "thimble" sewn into the palm surface of the thumb, for pushing needles through.

If you are breaking eyes, something seems wrong. I can't remember the last time I did that. My guess is that you are flexing the needle in the hole trying to widen/loosen the hole. Or, you're not pulling straight out. Hemostats are useful things, but unless you are clamping in line with the needle from the end, you are definitely torqueing the needle to the side. That's why I like bent-nose pliers, I can keep the handles and the pulling force in-line with the needle.

You may also need to use heavier needles.

[CaptQuirk]

I am buying cheap needles... just a guess? Not flexing them or torquing them as far as I know. I use the diamond awl and wiggle it a bit, to help make the hole a little larger for the needles to pass easier, but I obviously haven't got it quite right yet. I have also found that the blunt end of the needle penetrates flesh easily.

[MADMAX22]

The awl is an essential part of hand stitching and learning how to use it takes some time. Something that you have to have some patience with. The pricking irons are meant to provide a nice path for your awl to finish the hole for your thread. Matching the awl blade size to the needle and thread is essential in getting a nice looking stitch. The exception being thin leather. 

That tandy crap is the reason people have big holes that detract from there stitching. 

The biggest issue people face with awl's is that they dont get them sharp and polished which makes stabbing the leather difficult which leads to pokes and what not. A properly sharpened awl will cut thru a 1/4" of leather without much effort. Watch some of armetage videos or some of the other good ones out there. 

[CaptQuirk]

I got an Osborne awl. Does that count as Tandy crap? I have no idea what names are best, and just buying cheap until I can learn to use it... just like all the other newbs