Top grain uses

[bikermutt07]

I purchased two backs the other day from weaver. The leather is really pretty, in the 4/5 ounce range, top grain, and chrome tanned. It was advertised  as chap leather and the price was right.

I jumped on it. Then i realized it was top grain.

I made a wallet with a little of it.

I tried searching for uses of top grain, but all i find is comparisons  to full grain. And Dave from Saddleback telling everyone top grain isn't good enough for his bags (i like his stuff).

But, I'm not sure what to do with the rest of it.

Can i use it for messenger bags and purses? Is there any durability  to top grain?

What do y'all  use it for?

Any suggestions  would be appreciated.  Thanks.

[Wdfd908]

I typically use full grain, but I have used top grain. The top grain won't patina like full grain, but it still is durable and good leather. I have a customer who wants a messenger bag out of bright pink top grain. I've done some work on it and it seems to work just as well.

[LatigoAmigo]

FYI:  According the Mavrick Leather website...

GLOSSARY

There are quite a few different terms that are commonly used to describe different aspects of leather.  Below are some of the most common to expand your leather knowledge!

Full Grain: Leather that’s original grain surface has been unaltered. It is the most genuine type of leather. It can also be referred to as Top Grain.

[bikermutt07]

So, is it fine for anything you would make out of full grain? Keep in mind it is chrome tanned.

Thanks for the replies.

[bikermutt07]

Mine are smooth finish. I just probably heard too much bad mouthing of top grain in my learning stage. I bought one in chestnut and one in chocolate. They are pretty and the flesh side is finished better that anything tandy has sold me. 56.00 a side seemed a bargain to me with free shipping on 100.00+ orders.

I'll  post a pick of the wallet in chocolate in a bit.

[bikermutt07]

Here's a pic of wallet in chocolate.

 

[Olle P]

18 hours ago, nstarleather said:

Here's the funny thing, lots of people trying to sell their products (Saddleback for instance), get really firm about how much "better" full grain is than Top grain, ...

I can't think of a tougher leather than a football....

"Top" or "full" grain makes little, if any, difference. With the right selection of raw hides a tannery shouldn't need to bother messing with the upper layer of the grain.

I began doing leathercraft about a year ago, and half a year ago I realised the advantage of using locally produced instead of (Latin) American leather.

Swedish cows typically have:

• No branding marks. (Marking is done by tags on their ears.)
• No scratch marks from barbed wire. (Pretty much no longer in use.)
• No nasty insect bites. (No insects of such types live in the cool climate.)

 

In my mind chromium tanned leather is a second rate product every day of the week.

Its main advatage is being cheap, the second advantage is a fairly good resistance to abrasive grinding before looking worn.

Disadvantages are:

1. It's toxic. Remains should be treated as chemical waste products.
2. Not good for tooling, embossing, burnishing.
3. Not good for hardening.
4. Must be dyed at the tannery. Looks awful before dyeing and is difficult to dye later on.
5. Mechanical properties are also questionable (but definitely not much different) compared to vegetable tanning. (*)

 

A football being "tough"? Depends on what you mean by tough...

The ball isn't subject to much wear and tear during its relatively short life span.
It does have to stand up against a (mostly) constant stretching force from the bladder within. The seams must be strong enough.
Then there's the odd hard kick it will see every now and then. Any one piece of ball surface won't be subject to many kicks though.

I can think of a couple of other uses for leather that see much more abuse:

• Punching bag. (The area that gets hit.)
• Shoe outer soles.
• Cover on the toe steel dome on protective work shoes worn by for example construction builders and brick layers.
• Belts used for driving industrial machinery. (These were made from a type of leather called "remläder" in Swedish, I don't know the English term. I now use that type of leather to make regular waist belts and straps.)
• Boarding on boats trafficing the icy waters of the North Atlantic. (Cow hides and salt water is usually a vey bad combination, but it used to be very common in Ireland. See "Brendan Voyage" for reference.)

 

(*) A direct comparison between chromium tanned leather and leather tanned using traditional oak bark tanning showed oak bark being supreme in terms of surviving abrasive grinding. (Source: Timothy Severin, "The Brendan Voyage")

[bikermutt07]

Thanks Olle.

 

[Olle P]

20 minutes ago, nstarleather said:

Depends, there are tons of embossed leather that work well depending on what you're making.

Yea, I could be more clear. Referring to the case where the uppermost layer is removed just to reduce the visibility of imperfections.

If users want embossed or brushed (nubuck) surfaces, good for them. I prefer damaging the surface (by tooling) myself.

[JLSleather]

You can find "definitions' for this until you're tired of them.  But most of what you see / read is just going to be useless marketing poo spewed to willfully confuse people who don't know (and KEEP them not knowing).

The "fix" of course is to look at the goods themselves. Compare the ITEM, not the STORY.  Need an example?  Pop over to cutesy - there you'll find a few thousand acres of "goods" (which itself is misuse of a word) which clearly (to anyone aware of anything) have more time and effort in the PUNCH LINE than in the article.

Most around here are 'big kids', capable of cutting through the crap and assessing what they're looking at.  I mean, for example... say I make a holster that sorta fits, and it's "okay"... Now, I put it in a pretty box - hey, maybe even a bow on it   And throw in a fancy full-color pamphlet about how to break it in.  And upload a video -- that's always a goodie, huh?  But, none of that changes the holster.  It's either what I'm looking for or it's not - the rest ads nothing.

Funny - I got a buddy, used to do construction work.  Showed up all proud one day in his brand new shiny truck, complete with logo on the door.  "HAD to" come show me, since I designed the logo (and he's really got a bit of "look what I have" these days).  So I said tha'sa nice lookin' truck.  Well, I personally don't buy brand new trucks - a truck is a tool, like a wrench or a hammer (plus I don't hear an engine running, I hear the depreciation meter running).  But, he was happy, so whatever.  

But then he decided to "justify" his purchase - though I didn't question anyway what he does with his money.  Tells me that little old ladies don't like to see rough lookin' trucks in their driveway.  According to Richard, when you call a contractor, a shiny truck in the drive shows "professional" and "responsible".. and "successful".  So I just couldnt' keep a straight face any more - even though I like that guy.  Told him when I see shiny in the drive, I don't see "professional and responsible".. I see a guy who likes shiny new trucks and wants me to pay for it!

'Course, once the contract is signed -- the day of the work commencement, that shiny truck is nowhere to be found.  Instead, 5 or 8 boys will show up in two or three 15-year old trucks with ladder racks which have clearly held weight for a long time.  So, his story means nothing.  In fact, the more he leans toward "earning" money at the expense of them other boys' labor and thinking he's fooling little ole ladies (little ole ladies aint dumb.. my Mom is one of em).. the less I spend time with him.  Seriously, con my Mom and see what happens to ya.

Wait.. that took some of your time.  So don't run over ta cutesy.. you can find enough of that here   My personal take on it -- clicking out a shape, glue n stitch (or lace), pack n ship... is not a "craft".  Any more than eating is a skill, or washing your hands is "art".  Either takes little actual talent - just a bit of simple instruction and the right tools (clicker, needles, bar of soap, whatever).  Yes, I'm including holsters (the not-tooled version) -- any monkey can do it.  Off the path.. my 8-yr-old little girl sometimes looks in and asks 'so you do that so it does that?"   And she's right.  She looks at the ITEM.  Came around the corner one day when I was stitchin' (she's not actually 'supposed to ' be in there) , looked at that POC (piece of cobra) and said - 'it looks like it's walking".  Yeah - it do.  She gathers information and then makes her own assessment.

SO THEN... why all the words from somebody who always sayin' shut up 'n' show me?!  POINT is, at the end of this, the only thing that changed is the CLOCK.  

It would  be nice to see people - hear people - actually saying what they think.  But I'm not gonna hold my breath.  Sadly, while not EVERYbody is 'full of it", the majority are.  I have far more respect for the guy who is wrong than for the guy who is lying, but wants to tell you it's "okay" because "thats business".

 

 

Edited September 28, 2016 by JLSleather

[bikermutt07]

So???? Can I use this stuff in pretty much any item (not counting tooled stuff)?

[bikermutt07]

Yes. I know it's not supposed to be good against metals. So no holsters or sheaths. 

But, messenger bags, saddle bags, wallets, purses, clutches, belts, etc. It'll be ok for?

What about clothing?

I'm testing some scrap now against neatsfoot, aussie, and glycerine liquid soap to see about how to condition it. It seems to me that it already has a finish to it but I'm not sure.

[JLSleather]

14 minutes ago, bikermutt07 said:

I'm testing some scrap now

There's the thing, right there.  Of course you can use it -- you paid for it!  Most likely, the seller listed as "full grain" to distinguish it from "finished split" leather

Looking at your wallet, doesn't look like that stuff "drapes" very well (clothing), but should be okay for flat goods (like the one you uploaded).

 

 

[bikermutt07]

It was listed as top grain. Do you think it has a finish on it?

[JLSleather]

Cant' tell from here -- looks like it might.  Easiest way to check (maybe).. wipe the top surface with a damp rag.. see if it penetrates.

 

[SmokeyPoint]

So, I'm going to be the counter-argument to a lot of the responses and might get flamed for it, but whatever.  There is NOTHING wrong with corrected grain (AKA sometimes Top Grain) leather or chrome tanned leather, as long as you understand their limitations and uses.  Don't eat chrome tanned leather - I think we can all agree on that.  I would also advise against eating veg tanned leather.

Ok, kidding aside, it seems like you understand most of the limitations - it won't mould, stamp, take dye worth a darned, the edges don't burnish well, etc.  But it's generally softer, more pliable and more resistant to water than veg tanned.  You don't really need to seal it against moisture - that's one of its good traits.

Uses: Bags of all types, accessories (dop kits, etc.), portfolios and journals, wallets, phone cases, the list goes on.

As for the cut and paste work not being "craft", I disagree.  Starting out in leather, you're going to explore your world with your tools and materials.  It's amazing what you can make on your own with just a few bits and pieces of leather and hardware.  Don't be afraid to do the simple stuff.   If you're just starting out, make the little things.  They're good practice cutting, gluing, and sewing.  All of that improves your craft and allows you to take steps towards bigger and better things. Sell them if you can.  It allows you to buy more/better tools and better materials, then continue to hone your skills.  We don't all start out apprenticing to a master craftsman.  Eventually you'll find your focus and zero in on how you want your craft to evolve.  Some will never go beyond the cut and paste things that are little more than someone else sewing a quilt or a dress.  Others will stamp, carve, mould, and burnish their way to leather nirvana.  To each his own.

Make your messenger bag.  What's the worst that can happen?  You're out $50 in leather and have gained some valuable insight into what to do and what not to do.  I know this from experience -  I just cut apart the very first messenger bag I tried to make into scraps.  I had tried to sew it on the machine and couldn't keep the backstitching straight.   The second bag I made, I hand stitched instead. I use it to carry my iPad around and it's a great bag. It has held up well and the leather was never treated beyond the factory; it's corrected grain, chrome tanned leather.  No apologies will be given.  I learned from the first bag that my $3k sewing machine is not the direction I want my leather work to go, so mostly it collects dust.  $50 in leather is cheap by comparison.

-Sean

Edited September 29, 2016 by SmokeyPoint