Contributing Member JLSleather Posted November 6, 2016 Contributing Member Report Posted November 6, 2016 If I remember rightly, ... HO is about $1.45 more for backs than for sides. As a rule, sides are 25 feet and backs are 18-19 feet, so the side costs about $25 more than the backs. So, if you have use for the belly leather, then sides would work. I personally don't have much use for bellies, so might as well save teh $25 - ordering 10 backs is a difference of $250 for leather it would take me a while to find use for. At any rate, backs at HO (A-grade) will generally run about $185 each (as of Oct 2016). At W/C, it's similar, though their skirting does cost a bit more than HO. Ordering drum dyed colors is 15¢ more, and backs are "about" $1.50 more per foot. I say about because on their newly revised site I don't see the breakdown any more, and I also don't see it on my last couple of invoices (which state the total square footage, but no mention of price per foot). Sides there have been running 25-26 feet. And as a rule, backs are a bit more money than at HO. Almost without fail, you'll have good solid leather at the spine, firmest in the butt. This makes the bend the best part of the cow hide (you could say, high on teh hog, only it's usually cow). Going "down" the hide toward the belly, the leather gets less firm as you get lower on the hide. Still, if you don't have at least 24" wide of good solid leather, you need a new supplier. HO backs are often 28-30" wide from spine to the cut edge where the belly used to be. The bottom edge is still okay, but not as good as the spine edge. If instead you go from the butt end forward (toward the head), the leather is generally quite good for 60", sometimes more. But about 60", you start running into "shoulder wrinkles", which run vertically (90° to teh spine) toward the belly area. Note that on a double shoulder that some like to use, these wrinkles show "the long way". But this type of wrinkle isn't generally detrimental to the strength of the leather project (yeah- a test of the tensile strength will be a bit different, but minimal for what we do). Unless they're quite prominent, I dont worry about these. Still, for me- this puts the shoulder down to #3 on the Jeff desirability list (behind bends, then backs). Common to see me cutting belts from the bend and holsters from the shoulder (where I can cut around those wrinkles mostly) so the belt and holster are from teh same hide. But further up is the neck which, I admit, I often just cut off and pitch before i get any further. Even on great leather, the neck is generally not. Bellies I can sometimes use in the lighter weights - say 4/5 or thinner - but I don't order generally them above. Quote "Observation is 9/10 of the law." IF what you do is something that ANYBODY can do, then don't be surprised when ANYBODY does.
Members Weaver Leather Supply Posted November 8, 2016 Members Report Posted November 8, 2016 You guys are correct that none of our double shoulders are from Chahin, only sides. I am not sure if ALD natural shoulders are Chahin tanned or not, I would ask before you order to confirm that. We basically carry a line of strap/tooling, English bridle, latigo, harness, and skirting from both Hermann Oak and Chahin. I would be glad to discuss leather with you further if you have any questions or get you out cuttings of anything you would like to see. Shoot me a pm if you wish...would like to hear which line of double shoulders you had an issue with as well and I would check into that also. Thank you Quote
Boriqua Posted November 8, 2016 Author Report Posted November 8, 2016 I spoke with ALD yesterday and can confirm that the double shoulders are not Chahin. They carry Chahin sides but the shoulders are another mexican import and the person stated they are from US steer.. However they did say they have grade 1 double shoulders and not just TR. I ordered a double shoulder in 7/8oz of what they are calling grade 1 and will report back with what I think. The price was great at $5.35 a sq but I dont know what shipping will run and forgot to ask when I was on the phone. 35 minutes ago, Weaver Leather Supply said: Shoot me a pm if you wish...would like to hear which line of double shoulders you had an issue with as well and I would check into that also. I will dig up the order # and pm you. It was the first time in many years of purchasing from you that I received hides I was unhappy with. I dont think i purchase enough to make the wholesale cut at the end of the year so I have to find other sources now anyway but I am always looking to help out a business if I can and perhaps you can trace the hides I got and settle up with the place you got them. Quote
Members OLDNSLOW Posted November 8, 2016 Members Report Posted November 8, 2016 would like to know the quality and look forward to your report. Quote
Boriqua Posted December 30, 2016 Author Report Posted December 30, 2016 (edited) I wanted to use more of the leather that I got from American Leather Direct and ... I was swamped with orders to get done in time for Christmas so I couldnt come out and play. But now that its done here is what I think so far. I dont know if because it was my first order it was a honeymoon piece and not indicative of what I will continue to get. Having said that ... I have really come to love the leather I got from them and am ready to put in another order. I ordered 7-8 double should grade 1. Price was very reasonable. most of the hide measured heavy which is fine. I would say it ran 8 and a touch heavier. It was a nice white color when I got it and felt very dense. When you work with it and when you take it out of the box it feels like the hand may be a little soft but I think its because I am used to getting stiffer dryer leather. Hard to explain so I will leave it at that. It absorbs water like a sponge. I mean maybe that is what it was always supposed to be like but it just wicks up the water. It tools deep and solid with minimum effort. I LOVED the way it took stamps and it cut with my swivel knife like butter. I had to adjust my cut and the wait time before cutting and after wetting because it cuts that easily. Here is the part that really surprised me ... how it takes dye! I use a fair amount of red and ox blood as undercoats for other colors. On certain pieces I dye before wetmolding and when I did the water would go red and my dyed piece would turn kind of pink and I would have to reapply after the piece dried. I cursed Fiebings and their crappy oxblood but figured it was just something to work around. Sometimes black would come off some in the water ... Not anymore. This leather sucks that dye up. I got a tiny bit of color run on my last holster set on the red but the piece didnt change color and it was a miniscule amount. Other colors that I have used that ran no longer run at all. It does seem to need more dye to get a nice deep color but at least it is holding on to it. I bone .. with a bone and not a vacuum or press and I have always been "ok" with how it turned out. Didnt hate it but didnt love it. This leather bones beautifully and easily. You can easily pull up most of the detail by just pressing with your thumbs and rubbing before you go in with the bone or other tool. So far ... Im loving this leather. I will report back after the next two hides. below is a pick of my first attempt at Basketweave on the new leather. I do a fair amount of basketweave in different patterns so I could tell the difference in detail and ease of use. Edited December 30, 2016 by Boriqua Quote
Contributing Member JLSleather Posted December 30, 2016 Contributing Member Report Posted December 30, 2016 Looks purdy crisp Quote "Observation is 9/10 of the law." IF what you do is something that ANYBODY can do, then don't be surprised when ANYBODY does.
Members OLDNSLOW Posted December 31, 2016 Members Report Posted December 31, 2016 they are just up the road from me, and I have been threatening myself to drive over and buy some, I just haven't done it yet. I was fairly busy for Christmas but not overly busy, so when I am done with this W/C I have, I am going to make the drive over for the 1st purchase. I want to be able to look at a whole stack of leather to see if the quality in that particular stack runs the same from top to bottom. I would still like to hear more back from you as time passes with the hides you do have, as I have had the same problems with dye run off, not as bad with the W/C but I would be able to save even more money by being able to order from ADL and have them deliver. Thanks Quote
Contributing Member JLSleather Posted December 31, 2016 Contributing Member Report Posted December 31, 2016 That basket stamp looks crisp, clear. So is that from a side, or a shoulder? Quote "Observation is 9/10 of the law." IF what you do is something that ANYBODY can do, then don't be surprised when ANYBODY does.
Boriqua Posted December 31, 2016 Author Report Posted December 31, 2016 2 minutes ago, JLSleather said: That basket stamp looks crisp, clear. So is that from a side, or a shoulder? That is from the double shoulder I ordered. Not bad right?! I was pretty shocked. I am sure it can be better but I was pretty happy and what I liked was it was pretty even as well. I know that it has to do mostly with how I apply the stamps but I think it has something to do with how the hide accepts the water too. At least its a theory. My only fear now is that they wanted to make me a new customer and someone went out and hand selected that piece and my next purchases will be less than ideal. Which ... would be a bummer! Quote
Contributing Member JLSleather Posted December 31, 2016 Contributing Member Report Posted December 31, 2016 (edited) That don't look bad.. like ya say.. nice to know if that's consistent one order to the next. No pricing on their site, either. Also, not sure if it's the leather, or maybe just your camera settings -- but that looks a little darker than HO or W/C... just a tad more "russet"-ish Edited December 31, 2016 by JLSleather Quote "Observation is 9/10 of the law." IF what you do is something that ANYBODY can do, then don't be surprised when ANYBODY does.
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