Wet Molding, pressing in hydraulic press, etc holsters

[HBAR]

Hello,
 I have been a contributing member for 3 years(financially), but dont post. I try to read and read and learn.

I have read many threads on pressing, molding etc. I cant seem to find the answer I am looking for.  I make the holster, wet the holster, insert the firearm or mold and then press in hydraulic press.  I have used the rubber that you all recommend on this site.  I have used softer foam.  I have tried wetting the leather less, I have tried wetting the leather more.

The problem I am having is, Im getting too much texture in the leather from pressing.  I make the holsters to have very deep definition and then I bone them from there.  How hard should I be pressing? What rubber/foam is recommended? (even though I bought what was recommended)  How wet should the leather be for this stage?  How long to leave it in the press?  Am I expecting to much definition and detail?  Should lines from the gun transfer to the leather when pressed?  Logos?  etc.

Mine look like this. sometimes better sometimes worse.

 

see the texture Im getting sometimes?

 

For example I want  to make them look something like the Milt Sparks holster seen here.

 

Any help would be great.  I did try to find the answers for myself, but I just cant figure out the problem.  Thank you.

Edited October 7, 2016 by HBAR

[Halitech]

You're going from pancake to avenger style so things will be slightly different but honestly, I don't see anything wrong with yours.

[Dwight]

Hbar, . . . 

Reading your post, . . . I could almost look up in a mirror and say, . . . yeah, been there, done that.

A number of years ago, I built a small press, . . . and at first, . . . I was thoroughly happy with the results.  

Then, like you, I began comparing what I was doing with other's results, . . . and mine did not get up to where I really wanted them.

Someone mentioned vacuum forming, . . . and because I used to do vacuum formed magnetic signs, . . . I decided to try it.  I'll never use a press again.  In fact, a young fellow in Arizona wanted to buy some press rubber, . . . I made him a good deal.  

I use it for almost all the holsters I build, . . . 

The bag is nothing more than a piece of heavy vinyl from Joann Fabric about 24 inch square.  I use a Harbor Freight vac pump, . . . you can see the blank leather before the process, . . . and during the process.  This was not supposed to be a hi-def holster, . . . but you can see around the hammer where it pulled in the thumb break strap.  I had to straighten that later, . . . but that was no problem.

I also made a Rhodesian holster for a 1911 commander, . . . first one I made with the bag, . . . eased it out of the bag after forming, . . . let it dry, . . . the gun was a bit snug, so I "forced" it into the dry holster.  I almost thought I would need a razor knife to get the holster off the gun.  That alone sold me on this process.

I also like this as there is almost no possibility of crushing or breaking a weapon with this, . . . and I wonder about a press.

Anyway, . . . food for thought for you.  The little black slide cake was done in the vac bag, . . . not looking for a lot of hi-def, . . . just a working holster, . . . but you an see how well it did.  That is 7/8 oz shoulder leather.

May God bless,

Dwight

 

[JMWendt]

Yeah, I built my own vacuum press from a plan on the woodworking veenersupplies.com website (http://www.veneersupplies.com/categories/Vacuum__Press__Items/Vacuum__Press__Kits/).  Chose the EVS kit to build.  Very simple and cheap.  Runs off my air compressor and gets 20" Hg, so really works well.  Radically altered the look and snugness of the holsters I make, to the point where they can be too tight and need to be loosened for ease of draw.  The vacuum press is the way to go.  Whether you buy a vacuum press from Harbor Freight or build your own, it will change the way you bone in and mold holsters, sheaths, and other leather goods, for the better.

[HBAR]

I have thought about doing the vacuum route. I have looked at others threads about it, including Adams Leatherworks.  I also have a kydex setup in my shop. I have a dual vacuum chamber setup. I have a 8cfm pump.  Maybe I will finally have to get into vacuum forming leather too.
 

[JLSleather]

Couple points here...

This vacuum thing has been going on a while - seems every couple years someone "invents" it   This thread from 7 years ago got some good pics.

I haven't seen your kydex setup, but seems like that should work by itself with enough pressure

At the very least, if people are getting acceptable results with poly bags (no texture transfer) then seems you should be able to press as always -- just put a piece of poly bag between teh foam and your leather.

Not sure there is a "right" way, but the best holster making video currently available shows Sam Andrews using a hydraulic hand press to form holsters

 

[HBAR]

My kydex forming membranes would leave texture on the leather. They would also not be good for boning through.  However I could easily change the setup to work.

similar to this

I have watched the  Andrews video several times.  I do what he does in the video. BUT... he doesnt exactly give away any secrets there.  He doesnt mention what rubber or how hard he presses or how wet the leather really is.  Im working it out on my own, but if anyone had the perfect process and was willing to share details I would love to hear them.

[JLSleather]

Well, you may be right about the 'secrets'    On the other hand, all the basics are there, start to finish - unlike most videos which generally are either a time-lapse joke set to unrelated music, or some long-winded poop about "that one time" they did something

I was merely pointing out that you are getting definition in your leather, and a poly bag as described by the vacuum boys should eliminate the texturing.  Maybe.

I actually don't know about the rubber, either.  I would think that at least one layer would need to be relatively soft, else I don't know how you would get good pressure on TWO heights short of having a mold shaped to the desired result.

Tough to tell from the picks, but the last holster looks relatively flat-backed.  Are yours also?

 

Edited October 7, 2016 by JLSleather

[HBAR]

Mine are not flat backed. I did experiment with making holsters that way last year.  Some turned out good.  I guess If a guy spent lots of time and modified their patterns to work that way it would help with getting better definition.  My trouble is that I have had some holsters in the past (not shown) with great defintion and no texture, but I can no longer replicate them.  I will get a bag setup like the ones from the veneer shop and try to go that route.

The Andrews video is one of the better videos for showing most of the process.  Like you said, most videos you see are time lapsed and set to music, cutting out most of the informative parts.

 

One thing though, I would never line my holsters with suede.  Thats his perogative to do.

[OLDNSLOW]

I have both a 12 ton shop press as well as a vacuum table that I set up, the vacuum table uses the membrane sold by one of the guys that competes with all the other makers for the kydex guys dollars.  I tried using both in the beginning and now will only use the vacuum table for forming, after a few moments under vacuum I will brake the vacuum and do some boning then return to vacuum back and forth till I get what I am after, I will no longer use the 12 ton for forming it is dedicated to clicking.  You just need to work at it till you get what your after, but I must say that your work looks very nice to my eye on the computer, but to the makers eye the desired outcome might not be there.

Ron

[JLSleather]

13 hours ago, HBAR said:

most videos you see are ... cutting out most of the informative parts.

Yeah, not just videos either.  People love to go on (an on) without actually including anything that would actually help the next guy.  We used to call that a "small man complex", though that's probably considered discrimination nowadays   

I don't so much care for the "example" holster, though.  Never been big on black thread in brown leather, but more important, teh smooth LACK of texture on the face only makes the wrinkles look even more obvious.  The wrinkling under and around the trigger guard - and again at the top of the slide - would be a deal breaker for me.  

[BLUEGUN Store]

I use this one and it does good for me.  You could leave it in the press longer to get a more detailed mold.  http://www.bluegunstore.com/PancakeHolsterPress-Kydex/LeatherPress.aspx