What leather is used for what?

[CaptQuirk]

I swear there are almost as many flavors of leather, as there are flavors of ice cream. I've heard the names Horween, Latigo, and now Kangaroo? I know veg tanned is for tooling, but what about all of the others?

[Halitech]

Horween is an actual tannery and they do veg tanned and chrome based tanning.

Latigo is chrome and veg tanned and then hot stuffed with oils and waxes to make it supple and water resistant

Kangaroo is leather tanned by either method from kangaroo

[Thor]

Weaver used to have a glossary on that, but I couldn't find it right now. Tandy has a brief description on it here https://www.tandyleather.com/en/leather-buying-guide.html

[CaptQuirk]

Thanks Thor, but that wasn't the info I was looking for. Rather, I was looking for the actual leather names, and what they are typically used for. Horween is a tanner, and not a type, so that is cleared up. Latigo is used for hard use stuff that might get wet. But what do you do with Kangaroo? Like I said, there are a lot of names thrown out there casually, but for a beginner, it is a bit overwhelming. What is Bison good for? Pebble milled is usually soft and thin, so I would guess it is for garment, upholstery, or bags? The other technical terms I'm getting... sort of, except for the term "irons", used in weight I think.

[TinkerTailor]

Part of the problem is there are no hard and fast rules. People use english bridle for bags and wallets (which should be meant for bridlesi would think). You can make a coin purse or keychain out of anything, I have made many out of SB-foot (redwing boots) boot leather I get cheap because of blemishes. Each hide has room for a decent sized project and a dozen or two small things If you cut around the crap carefully. Molded, dyed and carved items need to be done in Veg tan.

The only way is to narrow it down for a particular project and try a couple samples and see what works for you. There are tons of experiences and reccomendations on here for any given project type. A lot of patterns also recommend leather.

The main qualities of a particular leather are:

Species-  Is it tanned from cows, aligators, mice or kenyan pigmey goats. Most have their strong and weakpoints. Kangaroo is really nice for lacing, not thick enough for a saddle but can make a nice wallet. Horse is used in fine shoes

Veg or chrome tanned?- tanning method. Most here use mostly veg because it can be carved, dyed and shaped easily. It is also the traditional way to tan leather Chrome tanned come finished and ready to use. Chrome tanning uses harsh chemicals and is fast, days. Veg used oak bark too tan and takes months-years.

Thickness- each type of leather will be available in multi thicknesses, and can be split thinner. I have seen pebbled veg leather in 8-10 oz and english bridle split down to 3 oz.  Project dictates thickness. A handbag with turned seams, pockets, zippers and other fiddly details will need to be thinner than a tote style bucket bag.

Temper- This is the firmness. Different leather types and even the same type from different tanneries can vary in flexibility. Generally Veg is firmer than chrome tanned. Good leather has uniform texture throughout most the hide. Crap gets softer as you move to the belly.

Finish: Is the leather raw, drum dyed a colour, has it been waxed and does it have a surface finish? Finished leathers are faster to use can be limiting in how creative you can be with dyes and tooling.

Grain: Leathers that are pebbled frequently have been embossed by huge rollers with this texture. Other surface textures are also available, sometimes a tannery will have the same leather available under two names, one embossed and the other with a smooth surface.

Cut: this is the part of the hide it comes from, there are charts for this posted on many sellers sites and all over google. Print one off and stick it to the wall next to the leather thickness conversion chart so you can easily convert mm to fractional inch to oz

One thing to be aware of, the less finish and grain correction/enhancement there is, the harder it is for the tannery to pass off bad leather as good by repainting it.

 

 

[CaptQuirk]

Thank you Tinker, that also helps a little. I'm not sure if I am asking the correct question or not. I understand a lot of the basic stuff, such as the cuts of the hide, the difference between veg and chrome tanned, thickness, etc. I just don't know about the different types of leather... is it still leather if it comes from a kangaroo or a stingray? Does kangaroo tool and carve well? Would it work for tooled holsters, or is that expecting too much from it?

I know that most finished leathers are pretty well what the name implies, you might be able to dye or re-dye it, but it is meant to be used as is. Skirt leather is used for saddles mostly, but thinner grades make good holsters or belts, and can usually be tooled or carved. As you said, the thickness and strength sort of predetermine what you can do with it. So, am I just getting too hung up on brand names?

[TinkerTailor]

Yup, there is alot of marketing that confuses the issues.

For most of the standard different types of leather the tanneries just change one or more of the above. For instance, skirting is generally unsplit and can sometimes range in thickness from 8-16 oz within one hide. Saddle makers like this because the hide naturally provides the different thicknesses for the different parts of a saddle and it ensures the thick bits are as thick as possible. This type of leather does not work well for belts because of this. The same side of leather sent through a splitter to make it exactly 8 oz all the way through is perfect for uniform thickness strapping and other projects. There are other subtleties as well, some tanneries claim to tan skirting a little "fluffier?" than strap leather because it tools and molds nicer, where as strap leather you want nice firm leather for less stretch.

Tanneries will have secret blends of oils, fats and waxes for harness and bridle and may vary from brand to brand. There are general recipes for each and bridle from anywhere should look and feel like bridle, pre-dyed and treated to have a waxy feel and rich coloring with a fairly firm temper. Some is waxier than others.  Regular veg leather, if of good quality, should be pretty uniform from tannery to tannery and hide to hide.

Now, Horween is its own goat. It's leathers are pretty distinct and vary quite a bit amongst their own brand names and rarely have equivalents from other tanneries. This is a whole catagory itself.

Non-bovine (cow) based leathers are a whole other topic. Any animal skin that has been tanned to preserve it is technically leather. You can buy fish leather. Yup, tanned fish skins. Snake is leather. Kangaroo is leather. How you use them is in the advanced course......

Really the only way to learn what works for what and what you like to use is to experiment. Keep your eye out for people on here selling random remnants. This is a great way to feel and look at different types and see if they are to your liking without buying whole hides.

[MADMAX22]

Kangaroo is primarily used for either making lace (the vegtan stuff is the best) and also for falconry. It is pretty strong for the thinness but it is somewhat expensive. It also makes a good liner for things like wallets where you want thin and strong. 

Most of the other exotic leathers are usually used for inlays and overlays in my experience. 

[CaptQuirk]

3 hours ago, TinkerTailor said:

Yup, there is alot of marketing that confuses the issues.

For most of the standard different types of leather the tanneries just change one or more of the above. For instance, skirting is generally unsplit and can sometimes range in thickness from 8-16 oz within one hide. Saddle makers like this because the hide naturally provides the different thicknesses for the different parts of a saddle and it ensures the thick bits are as thick as possible. This type of leather does not work well for belts because of this. The same side of leather sent through a splitter to make it exactly 8 oz all the way through is perfect for uniform thickness strapping and other projects. There are other subtleties as well, some tanneries claim to tan skirting a little "fluffier?" than strap leather because it tools and molds nicer, where as strap leather you want nice firm leather for less stretch.

 

Now, Horween is its own goat. It's leathers are pretty distinct and vary quite a bit amongst their own brand names and rarely have equivalents from other tanneries. this is a whole catagory itself.

Now we are getting to what I really wanted to know! What is so different about the Horween? Not having a lot of money to experiment with, I'd like a bit of foreknowledge before spending on the wrong stuff... or look for the right stuff to spend my money on. Not having a splitter, buying skirting would have been a mistake, especially buying any large piece.

[MADMAX22]

Wickett and Craig will split there skirting to whatever thickness you want. They will pretty much split most of there leathers and can refinish the flesh side for ya. W&C is a good price point also and they make great leather. Horween makes some nice leather, is popular with certain crowds I guess you could say however there prices are up there unless you are getting 1000sq/ft at a time. 

I think the better question would be "I am making __________ and _________, what kind of leather do you guys recommend?" 

[bikermutt07]

The horween is just a high quality leather. They have veg tanned and chrome tanned, they just seem to be better at it then any of the other tanneries. Or so I've heard. I'm with you on the tight budget topic.

Nstar Leather has some really nice full grain olive colored hides for 2 bucks a foot in the want ads. It's 4-5 ounce and really pretty. I think it will make some nice messenger bags.

Also, I have seen some really good deals on hides at Acadia leather. I read good things about them, but haven't tried any yet. Their pull up leather looks great (that would be chrome tanned that changes appearance as it is stressed and pulled).

Hope this helps.

[CaptQuirk]

@MADMAX22- I mostly make holsters and the occasional belt, and focus on tooling them. Since I am starting out, I make some mistakes on occasion, I haven't been buying the pricey top notch stuff. Rather I have been buying bellies that are on sale. Ruining a piece of that doesn't bother me as much.

I would like to try a little of the good stuff now and then, but can't do a side... unless it is a real price buster sale. For example, Tandy's November flyer has a side of Craftsman for $70 I think. That will keep me going for a while, and actually cost less than the bellies I usually get. But not knowing what is what, I am pretty much stuck with buying what I know...  ya know?

I have heard about W&C, and heard mostly great things about their leather. I have also heard that they sometimes won't ship for weeks. Add that to the fact that it will take at least a week for delivery, not likely to happen. I want to get what I need, so that I can finish a project for somebody. But this last point is secondary to cost at the moment.

[leatherwytch]

Personally, for veg tan, I prefer Herman Oak for anything tooled.  It is beautiful and cuts like butter. Becareful if the shop is not an approved shop for Herman Oak then they are liars. Herman Oak is very strict on who get's to be a distributer for their leather. 

As for Kangaroo there is nothing like Kangaroo lace. I still love it. I love to line using pig skin lining. As for inlays I have a big thing for colourful leather, like hologram and many others.

Just my ten cents worth.

 

[MADMAX22]

Cap totally understandable. With the fact your making holsters and belts and like tooling then I would suggest stiching with vegtan for the time being. Good on you getting away from the bellies, you will probably screw up far less with better leather thats not as stretchy and a more consistant thickness. Tandy leather is not great/good but it will serve ya much better then the bellies I imagine. 

I personally have not had the issue of W&C delaying shipping, just normal processing of a couple days and the usual time for ground delivery to where I live. Getting there lower grade will blow away the tandy stuff when you get to that point with the exception of W&C calf sides they have on special right now they arent so good. 

Now Hermann Oak is IMHO on par with W&C, usually HO is more expensive because you have to go thru retail unless you get large quantities from them then its cheaper. 

Maverick leather has some HO 8-10oz special on sale right now for $165 which even though its special is probably still a darn good leather. 

http://maverickleathercompany.com/product/hermann-oak-tooling-special/

I know its probably out of the price range right now but for future reference maverick has specials all the time on stuff. 

Belts

Now for your belts if your not gonna tool them bridle and harness make good belts as well. Maverick has some of the W&C bridle on sale.  W&C bridle is pretty affordable for bridle leather. It is vegtan with usually a aniline finish and totally finished on the outside FYI. Makes some nice belts. 

[billybopp]

There is a lot of really great info about ... well .. just about everything leather, including tannages, usages and such on the Kingsmere website.  There's quite a bit about types of tanning and usages here.   The website is a bit hodgepodge, but the info is excellent reading. 

Bill

[TinkerTailor]

13 minutes ago, billybopp said:

There is a lot of really great info about ... well .. just about everything leather, including tannages, usages and such on the Kingsmere website.  There's quite a bit about types of tanning and usages here.   The website is a bit hodgepodge, but the info is excellent reading. 

Bill

I was trying to think of that site earlier, but drew a blank.... too much in the brain today..

 

[HobbledCobbler]

On 10/26/2016 at 8:32 PM, billybopp said:

There is a lot of really great info about ... well .. just about everything leather, including tannages, usages and such on the Kingsmere website.  There's quite a bit about types of tanning and usages here.   The website is a bit hodgepodge, but the info is excellent reading. 

Bill

Now that's a treasury of information I can use!

Thank you!