Singer 111w155 or Cowboy 3200

[Bradford]

Need opinions on this, I have an opportunity to purchase a Singer 111w155 for 450 just timed with a servo motor. I plan on doing leather work not more than 7/16 thick would this be the machine? Should I hold out for a cowboy 3200 (much more expensive), and I also have a chance at getting a Singer 29K60 for 400 which I think is pricey and most likely won't do what I need.Is the 111w155 a lock stitch?

 

Items I plan on doing

Slings

Bags

Leather aprons

holsters

sheaths for knives and axes.

[MADMAX22]

Well yes the 155 is a lockstitch. 

 The 111w155 with a servo motor is going to be good for slings, aprons, and some bags which depending on design are better suited to be done on a cylinder arm machine. Its limited to 138 thread (maybe 207 on top). 

The 3200 is the choice for holsters, sheaths, and heavier weight bags. It will also do the slings and aprons depending on how thick your going. Will handle 277 thread easily which is what alot of people use in there sheaths and holsters. 

The 155 is a cool old machine however the 3200 is a more versatile machine. 

Edited October 29, 2016 by MADMAX22

[Bradford]

35 minutes ago, MADMAX22 said:

Well yes the 155 is a lockstitch. 

 The 111w155 with a servo motor is going to be good for slings, aprons, and some bags which depending on design are better suited to be done on a cylinder arm machine. Its limited to 138 thread (maybe 207 on top). 

The 3200 is the choice for holsters, sheaths, and heavier weight bags. It will also do the slings and aprons depending on how thick your going. Will handle 277 thread easily which is what alot of people use in there sheaths and holsters. 

The 155 is a cool old machine however the 3200 is a more versatile machine. 

Thank you what about a Singer 29K60 for 400 is that worth it? Going between all 3 bit the Cowboy is 3 times the price.

[MADMAX22]

The 29k60 wont do what you want to do and I am not sure on the price. It seems about right if its in good shape. There are certain things to look for on the 29k machines but I dont know much about them. The 29k are patcher machines, thinner thread but very good for sewing  on patches and what not. 

The 155 would get you started if price is that big of a factor which is understandable. They are nice machines IMHO however they arent a holster/sheath machine. They will handle 92 thread better then the cowboy IMHO. If I am doing 92 thread for say guitar strap or similar Ill use my 155. If I am using 207 thread like on my rifle slings I will use the 4500.

[Bradford]

10 minutes ago, MADMAX22 said:

The 29k60 wont do what you want to do and I am not sure on the price. It seems about right if its in good shape. There are certain things to look for on the 29k machines but I dont know much about them. The 29k are patcher machines, thinner thread but very good for sewing  on patches and what not. 

The 155 would get you started if price is that big of a factor which is understandable. They are nice machines IMHO however they arent a holster/sheath machine. They will handle 92 thread better then the cowboy IMHO. If I am doing 92 thread for say guitar strap or similar Ill use my 155. If I am using 207 thread like on my rifle slings I will use the 4500.

Very good, thanks for the info. Price isn't a huge factor. I can get the 29K patcher for 400 and the 155 for 450 was thinking about getting both of them but if that was the case I would get a Cowboy 2500 for like a thousand. Just starting out and I try to get what will work best right out of the gate. Guitar straps are also on my list. So maybe get the 155 now and the Cowboy down the road.

[MADMAX22]

If it was me I would get the 155 if its in good working order, do primarily strap goods like guitar straps and rifle slings with 138 thread or 92 thread and save your money then when the time is right look at a used 3500. The 3500s are more expensive but are compound feed and the same as a 4500 just with a shorter throat. There seems to always be used 3500/4500s popping up for sale. Then you could always sell the 155 to recoupe cost or keep it to handle the lighter stuff. 

Thats just one scenario. Others will hopefully have other input. 

[Wizcrafts]

I have 2 Singer patchers (long arm big bobbin and short arm small bobbin), a long arm version of the Singer 111 walking foot (a 139w109) and a Cowboy 4500. Here is how I divide up work among them.

For sewing patches over pockets or sleeves, or for sewing on new strap tabs on the sides of purses, or for sewing zippers onto purses, bags and boots, or for top stitching shoe or boot uppers or cylindrical items, or sewing a patch onto a wallet back, I use a 29k series patcher. I keep the small bobbin model fitted with #69 thread and the large bobbin model with #92 thread. A Singer 29 series "patcher" is only good for repairs.

For sewing wallets, phone cases, denim goods, chaps, jacket front zippers, and most anything that is between 3 ounces and 15 ounces, I use my long body Singer compound feed walking foot machine. I normally keep #92 thread in it with a #19 or #20 needle. I'll occasionally use #69 and a #18 needle for pigskin wallet interiors. Once in a great while I'll thread it with #138 thread and a #23 needle. You can use the Singer 111w155 for the same kinds of jobs. In your case you will probably use it more often than I do with #138 thread, which can sew pancake holsters together. Just sew double rows, 1/8" to 3/16" apart, for added strength. It maxes out with #138 thread. It maxes under with #69.

Any jobs that are 1/4 inch or thicker, or that require #207 or larger thread are done on the big Cowboy CB4500. This includes holsters, gun belts, knife sheathes, thick cases, tow straps, animal collars and harnesses, headstalls and bridles. I typically keep it threaded with #277 thread and a #25 needle.

These are not all of the machines I have in my leather shop. I also have a straight stitch drop feed Singer 31-15 tailors' machine for sewing cloth and linings and a very old Singer 42-5 spring foot for heavy upholstery work. But, the two patchers, the Singer compound feed walking foot and Cowboy machines are the ones I use the most. A well equipped leather business can not only make new items, but can repair old ones. Repairs are often a good stream of cash flow.

So, since you are just starting out, my advice is, if there is any way you can swing it, buy the patcher and the Singer 111 now and the Cowboy later, using money earned from repairs and new builds to help pay for the machines.

I see that you mentioned a Cowboy CB2500. It will sew up to 7/16 of an inch with #277 (and probably #346) thread. But, it is a bottom feeder only and the large teeth will leave very noticeable marks on the bottom layer. Further, its lower thread capacity is #138 thread with a #23 needle. No smaller needles are commonly available for this machine. If tooth marks are unimportant, this may be a viable option for you. Plus, there is an optional wide roller foot for it.

[Bradford]

2 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

I have 2 Singer patchers (long arm big bobbin and short arm small bobbin), a long arm version of the Singer 111 walking foot (a 139w109) and a Cowboy 4500. Here is how I divide up work among them.

For sewing patches over pockets or sleeves, or for sewing on new strap tabs on the sides of purses, or for sewing zippers onto purses, bags and boots, or for top stitching shoe or boot uppers or cylindrical items, or sewing a patch onto a wallet back, I use a 29k series patcher. I keep the small bobbin model fitted with #69 thread and the large bobbin model with #92 thread. A Singer 29 series "patcher" is only good for repairs.

For sewing wallets, phone cases, denim goods, chaps, jacket front zippers, and most anything that is between 3 ounces and 15 ounces, I use my long body Singer compound feed walking foot machine. I normally keep #92 thread in it with a #19 or #20 needle. I'll occasionally use #69 and a #18 needle for pigskin wallet interiors. Once in a great while I'll thread it with #138 thread and a #23 needle. You can use the Singer 111w155 for the same kinds of jobs. In your case you will probably use it more often than I do with #138 thread, which can sew pancake holsters together. Just sew double rows, 1/8" to 3/16" apart, for added strength. It maxes out with #138 thread. It maxes under with #69.

Any jobs that are 1/4 inch or thicker, or that require #207 or larger thread are done on the big Cowboy CB4500. This includes holsters, gun belts, knife sheathes, thick cases, tow straps, animal collars and harnesses, headstalls and bridles. I typically keep it threaded with #277 thread and a #25 needle.

These are not all of the machines I have in my leather shop. I also have a straight stitch drop feed Singer 31-15 tailors' machine for sewing cloth and linings and a very old Singer 42-5 spring foot for heavy upholstery work. But, the two patchers, the Singer compound feed walking foot and Cowboy machines are the ones I use the most. A well equipped leather business can not only make new items, but can repair old ones. Repairs are often a good stream of cash flow.

So, since you are just starting out, my advice is, if there is any way you can swing it, buy the patcher and the Singer 111 now and the Cowboy later, using money earned from repairs and new builds to help pay for the machines.

I see that you mentioned a Cowboy CB2500. It will sew up to 7/16 of an inch with #277 (and probably #346) thread. But, it is a bottom feeder only and the large teeth will leave very noticeable marks on the bottom layer. Further, its lower thread capacity is #138 thread with a #23 needle. No smaller needles are commonly available for this machine. If tooth marks are unimportant, this may be a viable option for you. Plus, there is an optional wide roller foot for it.

Thank you, I just got the Singer 155 home and am going to get the 29W60 tomorrow. Is #50 each a fair price. They are both in good working order.

[MADMAX22]

3 minutes ago, Bradford said:

Thank you, I just got the Singer 155 home and am going to get the 29W60 tomorrow. Is #50 each a fair price. They are both in good working order.

$50 each lol, yeah thats good for even a parts machine.

[Bradford]

Just now, MADMAX22 said:

$50 each lol, yeah thats good for even a parts machine.

Oh snap thats 350 each

 

[MADMAX22]

Thats not bad since you got table and motor and all that. If they are in decent shape and good sewers you did good. If ya had to sell them you would atleast break even I imagine. 

Is that a 29K60? thats the big bobbin one so  thats good. 

On the 155 be sure to check out the belt and see what shape its in, its not too hard to change out and several of us could walk you thru it. 

[Bradford]

1 minute ago, MADMAX22 said:

Thats not bad since you got table and motor and all that. If they are in decent shape and good sewers you did good. If ya had to sell them you would atleast break even I imagine. 

Is that a 29K60? thats the big bobbin one so  thats good. 

On the 155 be sure to check out the belt and see what shape its in, its not too hard to change out and several of us could walk you thru it. 

yes its a 29K60 my mistake. This is her.

[MADMAX22]

Thats really nice. Should clean up very well. 

[Bradford]

1 minute ago, MADMAX22 said:

Thats really nice. Should clean up very well. 

Looks good I'm going to pick it up in the morning.

Just now, Bradford said:

Looks good I'm going to pick it up in the morning.

 

[MADMAX22]

Any pics of the 155 by chance. 

[Bradford]

3 minutes ago, MADMAX22 said:

Any pics of the 155 by chance. 

I could take a few with my phone, I have it in my house right now. I have the light off and the stand for the tread off right now

[MADMAX22]

No worries I am just a junky for checking out old machines and like seeing what members pick up. 

[Bradford]

1 minute ago, MADMAX22 said:

No worries I am just a junky for checking out old machines and like seeing what members pick up. 

uploading now

 

[Bradford]

2 minutes ago, Bradford said:

uploading now

 

 

[RockyAussie]

30 minutes ago, Bradford said:

yes its a 29K60 my mistake. This is her.

That would be around a $1000 au over this side if it goes OK. I would love to have one.

[Bradford]

1 minute ago, RockyAussie said:

That would be around a $1000 au over this side if it goes OK. I would love to have one.

Yes I'm pretty excited about it.

[RockyAussie]

Hope it goes well and let us know if you have any problems on how to use. I have had a few and fixed a few over the years.

[Bradford]

3 minutes ago, RockyAussie said:

Hope it goes well and let us know if you have any problems on how to use. I have had a few and fixed a few over the years.

I certainly will, thank you.

[Singermania]

Cowboy Leatther Machines, Australia.   Singer 111 are top machines, no doubt about it, the CB3200 would have given you more options re feet, plates and guides but is a different machine category as its a cylinder arm.  If you only require the flatbed then you've done well.   Regards Steve

[CowboyBob]

Looks like a good machine,timing belt looks good too.Has a large pulley on the motor easy to change or upgrade to a servo.