"Make America Great Again" and the leather trade

[TinkerTailor]

1 minute ago, NVLeatherWorx said:

I will agree that we are fractured and I will also offer up that it has been growing for some time, but the past 8 years have seen the largest growth in that fracture and you can't deny it.  You might not agree with that statement and it is because the truth sometimes hurts very bad, but the end result is that it is still the truth and you can't deny the truth.  It is the path down the road towards what much of Europe and other nations have done over their time and the growth of the "social welfare and handout" programs to a point where they become equal to a working class wage, on top of the idea that you can provide healthcare to everyone for nothing and those who break their backs every day on a hard labor job will pay for your life, is why the United States voted the way they did this week.  It got to the point where people just said, "enough is enough" and basically put forth a mandate for something different.  And the most missed fact from this weeks election is that it wasn't only Republicans who went out there and said that enough was enough, there was a very large number of Independents and Democrats who jumped on that bandwagon as well and they come from the ranks that put the current people in office only to be let down by them; betrayal can change the common man's way of thinking and karma is a you know what.

Started with occupy wall street, the mortgage crisis and the fallout after. People got a small taste of hardship and a glimpse of just how bad the corporations have them by the short ones. The backlash against this corporate greed and profiteering was building way before Obama. Bush and Poppa had quite a bit to do with this situation as well. ....People took out those mortgages and credit cards during the bush period, then went bankrupt. While I can not deny that the rift has been building for at least the last 8 years i can't agree with the inference that it was created by democrats, specifically Obama.

Both parties follow the orders of the ones who give them the money. You and I don't have enough money to play in that game. Every user on this site combined does not have enough money.

The rift is NOT along partisan lines. The rift is between corporate entities and the people they take advantage of in the name of profit. These corporate entities just happen to also control the government.

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

22 minutes ago, TinkerTailor said:

Started with occupy wall street, the mortgage crisis and the fallout after. People got a small taste of hardship and a glimpse of just how bad the corporations have them by the short ones. The backlash against this corporate greed and profiteering was building way before Obama. Bush and Poppa had quite a bit to do with this situation as well. ....People took out those mortgages and credit cards during the bush period, then went bankrupt. While I can not deny that the rift has been building for at least the last 8 years i can't agree with the inference that it was created by democrats, specifically Obama.

Both parties follow the orders of the ones who give them the money. You and I don't have enough money to play in that game. Every user on this site combined does not have enough money.

The rift is NOT along partisan lines. The rift is between corporate entities and the people they take advantage of in the name of profit. These corporate entities just happen to also control the government.

Bingo!!

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

5 hours ago, JLSleather said:

Yep.. is this a geographical thing  ?

I know you're making a joke here, but it really could be!  I never really thought of it that way but coming from an agricultural background and an agricultural area of the country very well could have something to do with it.  Or maybe it's just a curse imposed upon random people.

[Jarhead44706]

      Very interesting topic of discussion.

        I think the problem that The United States is facing now is "The Entitled"... you know.... The get a trophy just for participating or throw yourself down in the aisle of Toys R Us throwing a screaming fit until you get what you want generation has reached voting age, and since they have never faced real defeat, got the first taste of how life can be difficult to manage.

        I have to agree with CD, we have risen from our own ashes many times stronger than before. But it takes work, patience, and dedication to your task to do so. Not sure people are willing to that as a whole yet. We have the ability and the knowledge. I am a Millwright by trade, so I know about working with your hands and sadly they are trying to slowly phase out my craft. On a positive note they are finding out that they need us more than ever. Oddly on Wednesday, we are getting orders for more products than we have seen in a long while ( 6 years) and our stock shot up.

        I have traveled the world on the Governments ticket, albeit to places that weren't the best places to be at the time. But it showed me a lot of how the world works.

        I haven't posted any works lately because my skills aren't quite where I want them to be quite yet. But because of many of you I have focused more on the areas that I was lacking and I thank all of you for helping. By making that statement it means that I know where my weakness lies, and I am willing to improve on it. Hopefully the more will realize this  

 

[TinkerTailor]

13 hours ago, Big Sioux Saddlery said:

I know you're making a joke here, but it really could be!  I never really thought of it that way but coming from an agricultural background and an agricultural area of the country very well could have something to do with it.  Or maybe it's just a curse imposed upon random people.

I think this can be a huge factor how a person develops values. My Dad taught animal science and crop science at a small agricultural college and farmed on the side for decades....  We had no TV. The antenna reception sucked. I read lots in the winter and did stuff outside on the farm anytime there was light. My attitudes and values came from day one as a child, I knew this is the way people are supposed to act. If your kids act out in the grocery store over candy, the whole town knows about it and they all whisper about how nasty your kids are. Then the preacher brings up controlling children and parenting in the sunday sermon and everyone looks right at you........Problem of bad parenting solved by shame.......Its funny how city people think that they one day they will move to the country for privacy. In reality there is less privacy in rural areas because anonymity disappears and everyone knows what everyone else is doing. The upside is there are people right there to willing help when you need it. They don't wait for the call, If they see yer old Massey stuck in the field they go right home and start up the Steiger. (provided you are not the guy who's name is on the big sign outside the farm store for writing bad cheques)

Edited November 11, 2016 by TinkerTailor

[TinkerTailor]

Bad cheques in a small town.....I totally forgot about that part, back in the day businesses used to just tape the bad cheques to the counter so every customer would see it and would know your name. Then every day in the coffee shop or at the feed store, someone would say "Hey Jim-bob, did you ever pay that bounced cheque from Petes hardware store?"

Shame is a very effective tool to keep people honest and good. We need more shame and less fear ruling the world I think. When people make decisions to prevent personal shame, these generally end up being honourable decisions. When we decide based on fear, the outcome is much more unpredictable. Fear triggers animistic survival instincts, and morals go out the window. Fear is how the world turns these days.

[JLSleather]

Well, this certainly has veered a bit Skipping the flowery speeches, you change an area by changing individuals (meaning, yourself). 

To "fix" any problem, you need to first identify the problem.  In fact, if teh intent isn't to "fix" anything, then the topic is more noise much like the other things blamed for ... whatever isn't "great" in america.  Let's take the example of "illegal" immigrants, just for example:

I've personally met a number of "illegal" immigrants.  I scoff at the term, really.  These boys (and a few girls) came looking for work.  They were willing to do the work, not just show up for a 'job' that pays them whether they did anything or not.  In fact, they freely stated (more than once occasion) that they didn't expect to be paid until the work was done and satisfactory.  They just wanted to feed their families, and were willing to work to do it.  This - of course - is the SAME thing YOUR family did (unless of course you are native to this area, which is gonna be maybe 1 in 10,000?).  I don't blame them one bit.. in fact:

I think "americans' could take a lesson here.  Got a job?  Do you accept money, even though you haven't done anything?  How many are on the forums here, while at their "job", because 'my boss is okay with it'.  Well, WHAT is it your boss is okay with?  You mean he doesn't mind paying you money to do something not related to his business?  Is that what he (or she) is okay with?  Here's a thought.. instead of 'shame', how bout we discuss PERSONAL INTEGRITY?  ANybody remember that stuff?

But instead of actually DOING MY JOB (which would make "illegals" unnecessary) we prefer to make it "illegal" for others to do exactly what we did. Yeah, you read that correctly.

So, where does change start?  I can control my house, and my yard.... Stop blaming 'the other guy' and do something beneficial -- 

So, WHY do people think "illegal" immigrants are a problem, anyway?  

Because they "take jobs" from "us"?  Largely, the jobs these people work are the ones that employers had trouble filling!  I personally employed a hispanic young man (born and raised in Houston, aka US CITIZEN) who was an honest hard-workin' kid.  Now owns his own business, and doing pretty well.  But that guy up the street sure wanted to know why I hired them "aliens" (just a note here.. get your story straight before opening the mouth.. you'll look better that way).  And I reminded him that I had offered that job to him TWICE, but he didn't want it.

Wait.. it's because they're often desperate and willing to work for LESS money than "americans".  This is often true -- and I say with a straight face that there have been times when I could use the cash and have worked for less than I would have liked.  When I was younger, I once walked onto a construction site and asked about work. Guy siad they paid $7 per hour, which I knew wouldn't pay enough to replace the clothes I was going to ruin.  So I told him I'd work TODAY for $7/hr, and tomorrow when he knew what I could do -- we gotta renegotiate (which we did).

But what is the incentive for the people who allow them to work here? ("them" turns my stomach, but I'm using that word here to make the point).

Employers:  this is a no brainer, really.  If I have employees, do I want someone who shows up EVERY day, doesn't whine about time off, actually DOES the work I'm paying him to do (not texting and cheeping, or whatever they do now), helps his co-workers (knowing it helps him to help the next guy), and hasn't asked for "light duty" because he's 40 pounds over weight,   etc....

Govt:  Every day, BILLIONS of dollars are paid to "undocumented" workers.  Money is sent in to state and federal taxes, and social security (sometimes removed from checks written, sometimes sent in by the employer to cover up for checks NOT written).  ANd it's all money the NOBODY CLAIMS back at the end of the year. BILLIONS of dollars sent to the federal government that NOBODY claims a refund on.  Need that explained more?

 

 

[JLSleather]

And.. at teh station this morning, top of the rack is yesterdays newspaper from another town... whinin' "equal rights" for "the GLFQN community", or whatever they's callin that now.

See, I'm all for EQUAL rights, but not EXTRA rights.  "Gay" couple (their word, not mine) in OH wants to sue a catholic church for refusing to do the marriage ceremony.  Hel LO>.... I thought only catholics could be married in a catholic church (and sometimes, only those who are members of THAT parish).  I'm not catholic, so no offense intended if I got something wrong in there.

EQUAL:  You know, as in "all men are created equal".  This of course was a farce, since teh people who WROTE that (supposedly wehn america was "great") had slaves and were actively killing off teh natives on teh land they were "claiming".  But the theory was a good one, and certainly it has been marketed extensively.

EQUAL:  as in ...  "you, therefore, who teach another, do you not teach yourself?  You who preach that one shall not steal, do you steal?"

Edited November 11, 2016 by JLSleather

[TinkerTailor]

Not sure it went too far off topic, Rural areas are consistently slow adopters of change and as such still hold some of the values that made america great before. They may have something to teach. A big part of the solution is to stop finding ways to make money off each other so we can have bigger jetskis than each other and go back to helping each other succeed. This still exists in rural areas but is gone in cities. This is a huge part of what made America great....Community and Values..

I am not even an American, I am Canadian and live in Vancouver BC, one of the most multicultural cities in the world. I am exposed to the kind of immigration now that many American cities saw from Europe in the 40s and 50s. Thousands of people wanting something better than what they have now. People who can see that even half of what the average North American has is still double what they could get at home. The hardest working people I know are the first gen immigrants. They get here and work their ass off to get a house, car, become citizens and raise a family from nothing. Many have big familys due to tradition or religion. These people have insane work ethics and frequently build successful businesses from the ground up. Their kids then inherit the business, and run it well, still remembering the hard work and values their parents put in. The second generation tends to be more affluent due to the value left behind by the parents. Then come the kids in the third generation. They never saw the hardships, always had money, got a car as a gift at 16, and end up with no work ethic at all and huge entitlement issues. They often are prejudicial towards people from the same country but have not been here as long.....Figure that one out....And remember that by the third gen they are not immigrants, they are third generation citizens. The affluence and entitlement problem is ours. It is passed down citizen to citizen.

[TinkerTailor]

7 minutes ago, JLSleather said:

EQUAL:  You know, as in "all men are created equal".  This of course was a farce, since teh people who WROTE that (supposedly wehn america was "great") had slaves and were actively killing off teh natives on teh land they were "claiming".  But the theory was a good one, and certainly it has been marketed extensively.

Yeah, but to be a man and vote you had to have a deed for land, so they were covered there........You will note it does not say all people are created equal,