First Saddle

[pharescustomleatherworks]

I posted this in another section but didn't know there was a section specific to saddle making, but here it goes:

 

I finished my first saddle about a week ago but I'm just getting around to posting it on here.  I taught myself with a pretty basic book and DVD set and a lot of the posts on here.  The biggest bump in the road I ran into was covering the forks.  The book and DVD set I was using built the saddle on a Bowman Tree while mine was built on an Association Tree, so the fork cover had to be welted, which I didn't know how to do so I got a little bit of help from another saddlemaker.  Other than that I was on my own.  Here's the rundown on the stats:

 

Bowden Association Tree, 16" seat, 13" swells, 4" Cantle

Flat Plate rigging in the 7/8 position with a D-ring rear rigging for attaching a holster

Classic Half-breed Basketweave

Latigo wrapped horn (which was also a pretty good pain)

Slick-out seat because I like to be able to adjust in the seat rather than be stuck to it

 

Overall I'm pretty happy with it with the exception of a few things:

 

The horn cap is slightly crooked

If you look from the rear you can see the tree between the jockeys and the skirts

The skirts are a little shorter than I would like

I'm not thrilled with the way the cantle binding is ended on either side

The seat rises higher than I would like, and if a horse threw into bucking it could become a "ball buster"

 

In terms of pricing for future orders, I think I'm going to start pretty low $2,200 for a base price and gradually increase as I get better.  I'm open to any kind of criticism so hit me with it.  Here are the pictures:

 

 

 

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

18 hours ago, pharescustomleatherworks said:

I posted this in another section but didn't know there was a section specific to saddle making, but here it goes:

 

I finished my first saddle about a week ago but I'm just getting around to posting it on here.  I taught myself with a pretty basic book and DVD set and a lot of the posts on here.  The biggest bump in the road I ran into was covering the forks.  The book and DVD set I was using built the saddle on a Bowman Tree while mine was built on an Association Tree, so the fork cover had to be welted, which I didn't know how to do so I got a little bit of help from another saddlemaker.  Other than that I was on my own.  Here's the rundown on the stats:

 

Bowden Association Tree, 16" seat, 13" swells, 4" Cantle

Flat Plate rigging in the 7/8 position with a D-ring rear rigging for attaching a holster

Classic Half-breed Basketweave

Latigo wrapped horn (which was also a pretty good pain)

Slick-out seat because I like to be able to adjust in the seat rather than be stuck to it

 

Overall I'm pretty happy with it with the exception of a few things:

 

The horn cap is slightly crooked

If you look from the rear you can see the tree between the jockeys and the skirts

The skirts are a little shorter than I would like

I'm not thrilled with the way the cantle binding is ended on either side

The seat rises higher than I would like, and if a horse threw into bucking it could become a "ball buster"

 

In terms of pricing for future orders, I think I'm going to start pretty low $2,200 for a base price and gradually increase as I get better.  I'm open to any kind of criticism so hit me with it.  Here are the pictures:

Nobody seems to want to be the first, so I'm going to dive in.  First of all, if you want to build saddles for others, I'd suggest you either get some instruction from an experienced, good saddlemaker, and/or expand your book/video library. A good place to start is the Stohlman books. Harry Adams' book gives some good practical advice on making patterns. Jeremiah's videos offer a lot of good advice. There is also information in all of those that I don't agree with or follow. That is something you will decide for yourself as you progress.  One thing that happens, though, when starting out, is if you get TOO MUCH conflicting information, it's more confusing than helpful. Nearly all the books and videos out there will give you SOMETHING beneficial, but none of them give you everything.  Stohlman's books will go the furthest toward helping you build a saddle that looks and rides good.  There are things they do that I don't agree with, but if you follow them through the entire process, they don't leave many unanswered questions.  I'm pretty sure I know the video and book you started with, based on the style of ground seat.  I never have been able to understand how anyone, male or female, could stand to ride a saddle with a seat like that.  You already stated that it has more rise than you'd like, so at least you are recognizing that changes need to be made.

The first thing that really stands out to me, and you mentioned, is the fit of the jockeys, and the skirts.  Part of that is the skirts don't appear to have blocked to the tree. This is visible not only at the rear, but the front as well, and you have not finished opening up the gullet by nailing the skirts to the gullet. Study well-made, finished saddles and you will see what I mean. It also looks like you didn't spike your jockeys down tight during final installation. They may need more trimming/fitting when you do this, but the process of spiking them down will help pull them tight against the skirts, as well as the cantle back.  Getting a good fit on the jockeys for me is a time consuming process, and I still struggle with finding a better and faster way to get a good fit. 

As you mentioned, the skirts could be longer.  Being able to make your own patterns for any style and size of saddle is part of the long learning process of building saddles. Better instruction, as well as experience, will help you with this.

Your front rigging looks set back further than 7/8ths, and rigging position is a very subjective subject, or at least everyone has an opinion on where they like them set. The rear rigging is also set a little further back than I normally place them. Calf ropers want them back further than most others. Typically if the leading edge is about even with the point of the cantle, I feel that is about right.

The cut of the top of the front ear of the front seat jockeys is too high. I don't like to see it higher than the top line of the skirts, and preferably a bit below it. Again, they don't look pulled in tight to the tree.

Cantle bindings are tough. It took me years before I was happy with the way mine looked, and my rawhide bindings I'm still not always perfectly happy with.  Your binding leather looks way too heavy. Either use lighter leather or do more skiving.  Just that alone will make it easier to form at the ear. Don't be afraid to spend some time getting a good fit. Moisture content is important, just like swell covers. Too wet and it doesn't mold as well. Your stitching, from what I can see, looks better than about my first 5 saddles.  I can't see it very well, but it looks fairly straight and evenly spaced for a first attempt. 

You swell cover welts don't look bad for a first attempt.  When trimming a single welt, a tool called an English edger (I think) works well. It's kind of like a French edger, except the bottom is concave and there is curve to the blade. To my knowledge, they aren't made anymore, so they are expensive and you'll have to search to find them. It will leave a nicer profile to the trimmed welt: instead of being flat, it will have a slightly rounded finished surface. The turned-under front could have used more skiving. I can see a lump through the cover where the edge of the leather is.  A common mistake is to not extend the front far enough ahead, but yours does come out past the rim of the fork.  Some people may not like that look and prefer it back further, but I do like it out a bit. If you spiked the cover down tighter, you would get a tighter fit at the front.

As far as the horn cover, yes it's not centered, but I would also like to see a little smoother overall look to it.  I prefer a little bit of a "dome" to the cap, and this is determined when installing your filler. Lighter leather can be used here too, and that will help.  The edges could be finished up a little more, which will add to a nicer finished look.  A heavier edger as well as sanding and truing up your edges, and then rubbing like heck to get a burnish, will do a lot. In fact, better edgers and more burnishing on all the saddle parts will make you more pleased with the results.

These are just a few things that really stand out as first glance.  They are all very common beginning pitfalls, and there are more "pickier" things that I could point out, but I don't want to be overly critical or discourage you.  I commend you on your desire and perseverance of starting AND completing the saddle.  It's a big undertaking when you have virtually no instruction. Best thing you can do, short of going to study under a master, is buy better instructional material and look at lots of top-end saddles for hours on end, looking at the overall balance and flow of design. I'm not talking about tooling, I mean the parts fitting together and providing a balanced look to the saddle. One of the masters of the trade, Keith Seidel, will hopefully add to, or possibly correct, my advice.  Best of luck!

[cac]

Congratulations ,

You have accomplished something that the majority of the leatherworking world will not even attempt.

You did good.  Now keep learning and DOING.

Clyde

[pharescustomleatherworks]

3 hours ago, Big Sioux Saddlery said:

Nobody seems to want to be the first, so I'm going to dive in.  First of all, if you want to build saddles for others, I'd suggest you either get some instruction from an experienced, good saddlemaker, and/or expand your book/video library. A good place to start is the Stohlman books. Harry Adams' book gives some good practical advice on making patterns. Jeremiah's videos offer a lot of good advice. There is also information in all of those that I don't agree with or follow. That is something you will decide for yourself as you progress.  One thing that happens, though, when starting out, is if you get TOO MUCH conflicting information, it's more confusing than helpful. Nearly all the books and videos out there will give you SOMETHING beneficial, but none of them give you everything.  Stohlman's books will go the furthest toward helping you build a saddle that looks and rides good.  There are things they do that I don't agree with, but if you follow them through the entire process, they don't leave many unanswered questions.  I'm pretty sure I know the video and book you started with, based on the style of ground seat.  I never have been able to understand how anyone, male or female, could stand to ride a saddle with a seat like that.  You already stated that it has more rise than you'd like, so at least you are recognizing that changes need to be made.

The first thing that really stands out to me, and you mentioned, is the fit of the jockeys, and the skirts.  Part of that is the skirts don't appear to have blocked to the tree. This is visible not only at the rear, but the front as well, and you have not finished opening up the gullet by nailing the skirts to the gullet. Study well-made, finished saddles and you will see what I mean. It also looks like you didn't spike your jockeys down tight during final installation. They may need more trimming/fitting when you do this, but the process of spiking them down will help pull them tight against the skirts, as well as the cantle back.  Getting a good fit on the jockeys for me is a time consuming process, and I still struggle with finding a better and faster way to get a good fit. 

As you mentioned, the skirts could be longer.  Being able to make your own patterns for any style and size of saddle is part of the long learning process of building saddles. Better instruction, as well as experience, will help you with this.

Your front rigging looks set back further than 7/8ths, and rigging position is a very subjective subject, or at least everyone has an opinion on where they like them set. The rear rigging is also set a little further back than I normally place them. Calf ropers want them back further than most others. Typically if the leading edge is about even with the point of the cantle, I feel that is about right.

The cut of the top of the front ear of the front seat jockeys is too high. I don't like to see it higher than the top line of the skirts, and preferably a bit below it. Again, they don't look pulled in tight to the tree.

Cantle bindings are tough. It took me years before I was happy with the way mine looked, and my rawhide bindings I'm still not always perfectly happy with.  Your binding leather looks way too heavy. Either use lighter leather or do more skiving.  Just that alone will make it easier to form at the ear. Don't be afraid to spend some time getting a good fit. Moisture content is important, just like swell covers. Too wet and it doesn't mold as well. Your stitching, from what I can see, looks better than about my first 5 saddles.  I can't see it very well, but it looks fairly straight and evenly spaced for a first attempt. 

You swell cover welts don't look bad for a first attempt.  When trimming a single welt, a tool called an English edger (I think) works well. It's kind of like a French edger, except the bottom is concave and there is curve to the blade. To my knowledge, they aren't made anymore, so they are expensive and you'll have to search to find them. It will leave a nicer profile to the trimmed welt: instead of being flat, it will have a slightly rounded finished surface. The turned-under front could have used more skiving. I can see a lump through the cover where the edge of the leather is.  A common mistake is to not extend the front far enough ahead, but yours does come out past the rim of the fork.  Some people may not like that look and prefer it back further, but I do like it out a bit. If you spiked the cover down tighter, you would get a tighter fit at the front.

As far as the horn cover, yes it's not centered, but I would also like to see a little smoother overall look to it.  I prefer a little bit of a "dome" to the cap, and this is determined when installing your filler. Lighter leather can be used here too, and that will help.  The edges could be finished up a little more, which will add to a nicer finished look.  A heavier edger as well as sanding and truing up your edges, and then rubbing like heck to get a burnish, will do a lot. In fact, better edgers and more burnishing on all the saddle parts will make you more pleased with the results.

These are just a few things that really stand out as first glance.  They are all very common beginning pitfalls, and there are more "pickier" things that I could point out, but I don't want to be overly critical or discourage you.  I commend you on your desire and perseverance of starting AND completing the saddle.  It's a big undertaking when you have virtually no instruction. Best thing you can do, short of going to study under a master, is buy better instructional material and look at lots of top-end saddles for hours on end, looking at the overall balance and flow of design. I'm not talking about tooling, I mean the parts fitting together and providing a balanced look to the saddle. One of the masters of the trade, Keith Seidel, will hopefully add to, or possibly correct, my advice.  Best of luck!

First of all thank you very much for taking the time to put together this long and detailed reply, And a few of the things you pointed out are some that I did notice, but forgot to include in the text.  The reason I'm not (currently) working under someone is because I am 16 and taking college classes and just don't have the time at the moment.  That being said, I do plan on expanding my library, starting with the Stohlman Books, because the one I used, which as you said you think you know, is very very vague and left me pretty disappointed at times.  I also plan on getting more tools because what I was working with was less than ideal, as most of them are from Tandy and I've that when it comes to this craft, you really get what you pay for.  I completed the entire thing without a head knife (my buddy who makes knives was supposed to have one done on time but ended up hurting his trigger finger and he wasn't able to finish it on time), and this resulted in a good bit of skiving that I wasn't happy with and ultimately resulted in a lot of parts not fitting flush to the tree like you stated.  I'm also going to go through a lot of research on the skirts, as that was my biggest disappointment between the look and them not fitting snug.  As for the jockeys, I'll go ahead and admit I was getting excited because I was close to finishing and rushed a little.  The ground seat might could give the skirts a run for their money in disappointment though, and I'll definitely do something different about that next time.  Once again though thank you so much for taking the time to help educate me, and please feel free to tell me about the picky things because the reason I posted this here was to have it picked apart, not to get a bunch of "Congrats it looks great" compliments.  I've learned a ton and know a bunch of things to do different next time after this experience, so I'm definitely open to learning more.  Thanks again.

19 minutes ago, cac said:

Congratulations ,

You have accomplished something that the majority of the leatherworking world will not even attempt.

You did good.  Now keep learning and DOING.

Clyde

Thank you for the kind words, Clyde.

[Goldshot Ron]

Welcome to the world of leatherworking.  Now that you've finished your first saddle, like Sioux said, look at other saddles and see how they were made.  Not just the factory made ones, but custom saddles.  Maybe find friends with horses and offer to clean their saddles for free or at cost.  Take photos and draw pictures of these saddles.  What you see may not teach you much now, but later you'll be able to compare results.  Check out You tube, and look for Bruce Cheney saddle making tips.  I say this because he made "how to"  tapes in the 80s demonstrating saddle construction, and his main tool was a sharp pocket knife.  Don't think that you need a lot of tools to build a saddle.  I recommend buying a few good tools; quality over quantity.  And, go ahead and ask questions on this site at each confusing step.  Someone here has been there and can help you along.  And oh yeah,  just because you think that you completed this saddle, don't be afraid to tear it apart and make improvements.  I've recovered a horn five times before it finally satisfied me; and don't get me started on rear jockeys.

Good luck, Ron

 

[pharescustomleatherworks]

28 minutes ago, Goldshot Ron said:

Welcome to the world of leatherworking.  Now that you've finished your first saddle, like Sioux said, look at other saddles and see how they were made.  Not just the factory made ones, but custom saddles.  Maybe find friends with horses and offer to clean their saddles for free or at cost.  Take photos and draw pictures of these saddles.  What you see may not teach you much now, but later you'll be able to compare results.  Check out You tube, and look for Bruce Cheney saddle making tips.  I say this because he made "how to"  tapes in the 80s demonstrating saddle construction, and his main tool was a sharp pocket knife.  Don't think that you need a lot of tools to build a saddle.  I recommend buying a few good tools; quality over quantity.  And, go ahead and ask questions on this site at each confusing step.  Someone here has been there and can help you along.  And oh yeah,  just because you think that you completed this saddle, don't be afraid to tear it apart and make improvements.  I've recovered a horn five times before it finally satisfied me; and don't get me started on rear jockeys.

Good luck, Ron

 

Thanks for the welcome, but I have been leather working for 4 years since I was 12 lol, but thank you. And thank you as well for the good tips, I have watched a lot of the Bruce Cheany YouTube videos and I am subscribed to him, but I do like the idea about cleaning saddles and such, I will definitely try that one. Thanks again for the tips. 

[kseidel]

Well Jared, congratulations on making your first saddles.  By the looks of your facebook page and reading your posts, it will be the first of many.  You are ambitious for a 16 year old in this society.  If you are willing to work as hard at perfecting your skills as you seem excited about promoting yourself, you will enjoy a bright and successful future.

Just last week someone sent me a pic of one of my first saddles and it reminded me of where I started.  I was 14 when I started making saddles, and they were pretty rough!  But I didn't know any better, and I was proud of them. 

Big Sioux gave you a direct and accurate critique... and he didn't cut you much slack.  I appreciate that he was willing to give you and honest evaluation.  I would like to encourage you to burn the book and video that you used on this saddle, and start fresh with a qualified maker.  Then make it a priority to study saddles.  Expose yourself to all that you can find.  You will learn much good from saddles made by masters, and maybe more of the bad made by inexperienced and commercial makers.  Learn to evaluate what you are seeing and to be able to duplicate the designs.  It is apparent that you do not have a very good base of knowledge regarding the finer elements of a saddles' design.  As you evaluate the saddle that you have just finished, you will see the glaring design flaws.  Later, you will see the more subtle elements that you can improve in the future.

If you want to make a career as a saddlemaker, consider getting some personal training.  Your swell cover is testimony that you respond well to personal help as this may be the best part on this saddle.  You can learn a great deal from books and videos, but many times more from training in person.  Get some GOOD books and videos, and invest in some personal training.  Maybe take some classes at a leather worker trade show, and find a local saddlemaker (or several) to teach you some tricks as you develop.  You could learn the hard way and take 20 years, or get some training, and shorten that learning curve by many years.  Don't get discouraged, this is a great career, and very rewarding.  I wish you the best of luck in your venture.

Keith Seidel

 

 

[pharescustomleatherworks]

9 hours ago, kseidel said:

Well Jared, congratulations on making your first saddles.  By the looks of your facebook page and reading your posts, it will be the first of many.  You are ambitious for a 16 year old in this society.  If you are willing to work as hard at perfecting your skills as you seem excited about promoting yourself, you will enjoy a bright and successful future.

Just last week someone sent me a pic of one of my first saddles and it reminded me of where I started.  I was 14 when I started making saddles, and they were pretty rough!  But I didn't know any better, and I was proud of them. 

Big Sioux gave you a direct and accurate critique... and he didn't cut you much slack.  I appreciate that he was willing to give you and honest evaluation.  I would like to encourage you to burn the book and video that you used on this saddle, and start fresh with a qualified maker.  Then make it a priority to study saddles.  Expose yourself to all that you can find.  You will learn much good from saddles made by masters, and maybe more of the bad made by inexperienced and commercial makers.  Learn to evaluate what you are seeing and to be able to duplicate the designs.  It is apparent that you do not have a very good base of knowledge regarding the finer elements of a saddles' design.  As you evaluate the saddle that you have just finished, you will see the glaring design flaws.  Later, you will see the more subtle elements that you can improve in the future.

If you want to make a career as a saddlemaker, consider getting some personal training.  Your swell cover is testimony that you respond well to personal help as this may be the best part on this saddle.  You can learn a great deal from books and videos, but many times more from training in person.  Get some GOOD books and videos, and invest in some personal training.  Maybe take some classes at a leather worker trade show, and find a local saddlemaker (or several) to teach you some tricks as you develop.  You could learn the hard way and take 20 years, or get some training, and shorten that learning curve by many years.  Don't get discouraged, this is a great career, and very rewarding.  I wish you the best of luck in your venture.

Keith Seidel

 

 

Thank you very much for the kind words and the inspiration, what you said means a lot to me, especially coming from a great like you. I will consider everything you said, mainly seeking one-on-one help and getting rid of the book and DVD set I currently have. I'm going to order the Stohlman book within a couple of days because I know it will broaden that base knowledge that you were talking about. I've grown up on a cattle ranch here so the main saddles I've seen growing up were work saddles that weren't in the best shape, so I'll definitely be looking around on the internet (a lot more than I have been) and I'll see about checking out some at some of my friends' rodeos. Once again thank you so much for the help and inspiration.