Larger Stiching Awl?

[Anachronite]

I've recently started using the Tandy lock stitching awl. Works great but I really want one that can do some larger thread. I have looked on line but no one do any other models mention thread size/gauge. Does anyone know if someone makes a lock stitching awl that uses larger thread than the Tandy one? Thank you. Here is the one I have:  https://www.amazon.com/Tandy-Leather-Factory-Stitch-Sewing/dp/B00A2C8M6K/ref=sr_1_2?s=arts-crafts&ie=UTF8&qid=1488219002&sr=1-2&keywords=stitching+awl

 

~Jeff

[electrathon]

First, you can replace the needle with one out of a large sewing machine and run larger thread.

Second, that tool is the one most hated tool in leatherwork for me.  Buy a real sewing awl (a flat needle for lack of a better description) and sew with two sewing needles.  Your quality of work will skyrocket up. 

[Tugadude]

I'm wondering what you are using that awl for.  Can you enlighten me?

[fredk]

I mostly agree with electrathon; get a a diamond shaped awl and use two needles to sew. It really does make a difference. With those you can use any size thread you want.

The self-contained awl/needle thingy has its place in the tool kit. in my case I hardly ever use it but it has its uses.

[Anachronite]

21 hours ago, electrathon said:

First, you can replace the needle with one out of a large sewing machine and run larger thread.

Second, that tool is the one most hated tool in leatherwork for me.  Buy a real sewing awl (a flat needle for lack of a better description) and sew with two sewing needles.  Your quality of work will skyrocket up. 

What's the AWL for if you are using two needles?

 

 

 

20 hours ago, Tugadude said:

I'm wondering what you are using that awl for.  Can you enlighten me?

Using it for sewing. It's way faster than 2 needles

 

 

 

20 hours ago, fredk said:

I mostly agree with electrathon; get a a diamond shaped awl and use two needles to sew. It really does make a difference. With those you can use any size thread you want.

The self-contained awl/needle thingy has its place in the tool kit. in my case I hardly ever use it but it has its uses.

not sure what the awl is for when using two needles. I punch the holds first with a diamond shaped stitching punch, which makes sure the stitching line is straight. I want the bigger needle/sewing awl so I don't have to use 2 needles to sew with larger thread. It's way faster than using 2 needles to sew. I like the sewing machine needle idea. I will give that a try. thanks!

[electrathon]

2 hours ago, Anachronite said:

What's the AWL for if you are using two needles?

It is for punching the holes.  If you are pre-punching the holes you can go without it.  It would be rare to find anyone who is skilled in hand sewing that is using an auto awl.  Almost everyone buys one when they start until they learn how to hand sew. 

[DJole]

2 hours ago, Anachronite said:

"What's the AWL for if you are using two needles?"

"Using it for sewing. It's way faster than 2 needles..."

 

If you watch Armitage Leather's YouTube tutorials, you can see what the awl is for <Google it on YouTube>. Basically, you are trying to keep the hole as small as possible, just enough for the needle and thread to pass through. The awl makes the smallest possible diamond shaped hole. Stitching punches (or irons or chisels or whatever term you use) can be used to mark the leather where the hole will be made, or they can be used to actually create the holes.

There are two camps in this debate-- the purist says mark, then use the awl to actually create the holes as you stitch; the others say use the irons to create the holes before you start stitching. (I personally have not done it the first way yet; I would need a stitching pony or clam to make it work correctly.) 

Yes, the sewing tool is way faster than 2 needles, but it creates a lock stitch, which will open up 2 stitch lengths when or if the thread breaks. The saddle stitch in the same situation only opens up 1, so it's more secure.

Like this, as Al Stohlman illustrates:

So it just depends on your personal preference and how much time you want to spend stitching. It's an aesthetic choice, which may matter to you or the people who get your leather stuff.

Many here on this forum prefer the old-fashioned, painstaking 2 needle saddle stitch, for various reasons.

But if I were out in the field, and had to make a quick repair on something, the sewing awl might be the best way to get it done and get going again. 

[DJole]

18 minutes ago, electrathon said:

It is for punching the holes.  If you are pre-punching the holes you can go without it.  It would be rare to find anyone who is skilled in hand sewing that is using an auto awl.  Almost everyone buys one when they start until they learn how to hand sew. 

I'm one of the few who didn't buy one of those to use when i was first starting out.
But that's because a pack of needles and a roll of waxed thread was cheaper!

[electrathon]

1 hour ago, DJole said:

Yes, the sewing tool is way faster than 2 needles, but it creates a lock stitch, which will open up 2 stitch lengths when or if the thread breaks. The saddle stitch in the same situation only opens up 1, so it's more secure.

I would question this.  I am only average at hand sewing but I can sew circles around someone trying to sew with an auto awl.  My stitches will look good when done too, auto awl stitches usually look like Poo.  The lock stitch verses saddle stitch is just a bonus to me.  Almost all sewing is a lock stitch now days  and it works just fine.

[Tugadude]

2 hours ago, electrathon said:

It is for punching the holes.  If you are pre-punching the holes you can go without it.  It would be rare to find anyone who is skilled in hand sewing that is using an auto awl.  Almost everyone buys one when they start until they learn how to hand sew. 

Electrathon is right on.  Stitching is both functional and aesthetic, unless it is hidden out of sight.  Saddle stitching, what you refer to as two needle stitching looks far superior to a line of stitching created by a stitching awl.  But to each his/her own.

[catskin]

For doing repairs there are places you can NOT use a second needle, such as sewing inside a loop for a trace on harness and the lock stitch awl WILL go in from one side and let you replace stitches that let go by putting the thread through the loop it creates.  So YES it has its place but it does not replace a good sewing machine.

[electrathon]

9 minutes ago, catskin said:

For doing repairs there are places you can NOT use a second needle, such as sewing inside a loop for a trace on harness and the lock stitch awl WILL go in from one side and let you replace stitches that let go by putting the thread through the loop it creates.  So YES it has its place but it does not replace a good sewing machine.

For sewing into blind areas I can sew far faster and better with a jerk needle than an auto awl.  The main difference is if you use an auto awl you need to slip the thread through the loop inside the tight area.  With a jerk needle you make the loop out in the open.  A lot easier to control.

[catskin]

1 hour ago, electrathon said:

For sewing into blind areas I can sew far faster and better with a jerk needle than an auto awl.  The main difference is if you use an auto awl you need to slip the thread through the loop inside the tight area.  With a jerk needle you make the loop out in the open.  A lot easier to control.

I've never seen a jerk needle. So I use what works for me.

[carguy4471]

$0.02 for a rookie so take it with a large grain of salt.  

I use a groover to sink where my stitches will be.  Then I use an overstitching wheel to mark where my holes need to be.  Then I use a diamond awl from tandy (polished up on a stop) and punch the holes.  Lastly I use two saddlers needles (I think they are called) and saddle stitch with two needles.  My stitching looks great.  Evenly spaced and now that I've done almost a dozen holsters I'm pretty quick at it.  From what I've been told this is very sturdy stitching that will really last.  I could use almost any size thread.  

I did make one upgrade from the above, and that is putting a machine sewing needle in a drill press to punch (not drill) the holes instead of the diamond awl.  It's a little faster but it's much easier on the arm.

I didn't even bother buying one of those stitching awl things.  I don't like the lock stitch vs saddle stitch.  I'm going to stick with what I'm doing until $1700 drops from the sky to buy a cowboy machine.   

[Tugadude]

Carguy, they are called harness needles.