Video: Lower Needle Guide for Juki TSC-441 class machines

[Uwe]

I've been meaning to make a lower needle guide similar to the ones Ferdco used to sell. I have some spare toothed feed dogs and fired up the grinder and polishing wheel. I think it worked out okay and it certainly seems functional. I'm still wondering how the Ferdco version described in Ferdinand Jeanblanc's patent (which expired in 2003) really differs functionally in real life. In case somebody actually wants to make and use one of these things, I made a video showing how it works and some before-and-after shots of the feed dog turned lower needle guide. 

Here's the video for your entertainment:

 

Edited April 17, 2017 by Uwe

[RockyAussie]

Thanks for posting Uwe. Do you think that the needle with that size hole won't deflect enough to miss stitches? I have been playing with the idea of slimming down a smooth feed dog to the needle foot width or less, and widening out the throat plate to suit.This would be to try and stop on thinner work the leather going down into the large hole so much (which can create miss stitches) and hopefully smooth out the jumpy feed nature when trying to do more intricate work. This would presumably help the needle deflection at a higher and longer section as well. What are your thoughts? Also playing with the idea of making it needle and dog feed only but that's another story. Regards Brian

[dikman]

So basically you're turning it into a needle-and-inner-foot feed only?

[Constabulary]

 

1 hour ago, dikman said:

So basically you're turning it into a needle-and-inner-foot feed only?

needle and outer foot I would guess

Edited April 17, 2017 by Constabulary

[Uwe]

@dikman It's really the slotted throat plate and removing the feed dog that turns the machine into a needle+top feed machine. The addition of the lower needle guide is just a small improvement on that.

@Constabulary It is the inner presser foot that helps feed the material, the outer presser foot just holds the material in place.

@RockyAussie The hole size in the needle guide is a balancing act. It's exactly the same size as the feed dog, so it's no worse than the original feed dog in that regard. The smaller that hole, the bigger the chance of the needle striking the edge, which is usually a show-stopper. That slim in-line feed dog you described sounds interesting and like a good candidate for some prototyping. My smooth feed dog has a much larger, elongated needle hole compared to the toothed feed dog - that's why I decided to use the toothed feed dog as a starting point.

The addition of the lower needle guide only helps feed the material in extreme situations where the needle gets deflected enough to make contact with the guide/brace. It's like the weight lifting spotter buddy in the gym - they don't help at all and just watch you suffer unless you get really wobbly.  It's an incremental improvement - better than having nothing at all underneath to help feed occasionally, but not a good as a proper feed dog.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 17, 2017 by Uwe

[Constabulary]

10 minutes ago, Uwe said:

 It is the inner presser foot that helps feed the material, the outer presser foot just holds the material in place.

I know I was thinking of an BUSMC 6 where just the needle feeds the material and the foot holds the material in place while the needle is starting a new stitch... I probably misread something - brain fart... forget it.

[Wizcrafts]

Uwe;

I have a good friend with a Cobra Class 4 who had the feed dog slimmed down on four sides, filled in slightly inside the hole and a matching smooth curved throat plate made to contain the modified feeder. the shorter length reflected his desire to not exceed 4 to the inch, or use anything larger than a #25 needle. The narrower width helped reduce the stuffing of soft bison and chap leather inside the bigger slot in the OEM plate. He has minimum deflection of #22 needles and is better able to sew mushy leather items than I am on my Cowboy, unless I switch to the slotted plate. That's where I could probably use your bottom guide.

[Trox]

Thanks for posting Uwe, I was lucky to find a second hand Ferdco lower N guide. My machine has worked flawless with special needle plates since I installed it. My toothed feed dog is hollow beneath so it was impossible to modify it (see pics). I would not be any material left if I did the same thing with mine as Uwe did.  The toothed one might come in handy sometimes too, if I had not stumbled over the Ferdco guide I would have bought another toothed one for modernizing (a more rigid one of course). I also reduced the hight of my bag (stirrup) plate, this way I have more lift when using it and better material support (for my needs , that is). My machine did not function well with that high plate and skipped stitches frequently, it worked much better with the reduced hight..  and later with the lower guide....flawlessly. Tor  

Edited April 17, 2017 by Trox

[Trox]

15 hours ago, RockyAussie said:

Thanks for posting Uwe. Do you think that the needle with that size hole won't deflect enough to miss stitches? I have been playing with the idea of slimming down a smooth feed dog to the needle foot width or less, and widening out the throat plate to suit.This would be to try and stop on thinner work the leather going down into the large hole so much (which can create miss stitches) and hopefully smooth out the jumpy feed nature when trying to do more intricate work. This would presumably help the needle deflection at a higher and longer section as well. What are your thoughts? Also playing with the idea of making it needle and dog feed only but that's another story. Regards Brian

HI Brian, It would not be to hard to make this lower guide out of a L angle iron or something, you can do most of the job with a bench grinder, drill press and/or a Dremel tool. It does not matter if it's soft steel, yes you can even try to harden it when it's finish. It's not a very complicated job.  Our we can ask the Hightex/ Cowboysew.com to make it. They are always looking for new products, mostly machines that is. But it does not hurt to ask, the worst that can happens is getting a No  Having such part installed or in their accessories would be a business advantage, they already have every thing else for these machines. It's a very useful accessory indeed. Tor

[Uwe]

Thanks for adding some pictures of the Ferdco original, Tor! I've had a piece of stainless steel angle iron sitting in my garage for months now. I bought it intending to machine some of these needle guides from scratch. I may still do it. The part looks simple enough, but making a few dozen with the required precision is not so easy in my experience.

I have a contact in Taiwan who is looking to make custom sewing parts, but their minimum order quantity is 300. That may be more than Ferdco ever sold of these things - I think you'd be lucky to sell 30 of these over a few years.

[RockyAussie]

2 hours ago, Trox said:

HI Brian, It would not be to hard to make this lower guide out of a L angle iron or something, you can do most of the job with a bench grinder, drill press and/or a Dremel tool. It does not matter if it's soft steel, yes you can even try to harden it when it's finish. It's not a very complicated job.  Our we can ask the Hightex/ Cowboysew.com to make it. They are always looking for new products, mostly machines that is. But it does not hurt to ask, the worst that can happens is getting a No  Having such part installed or in their accessories would be a business advantage, they already have every thing else for these machines. It's a very useful accessory indeed. Tor

Thanks Tor, That looks pretty easy so it will go into my to do list as of now. Brian

 

8 hours ago, Constabulary said:

I know I was thinking of an BUSMC 6 where just the needle feeds the material and the foot holds the material in place while the needle is starting a new stitch... I probably misread something - brain fart... forget it.

I hope it isn't a brain fart.With regards to that idea I am thinking of taking the front foot out and closing the back foot close together just off the needle then disconnecting the linkage that lifts the back foot so it becomes a pressure only foot. Although this impacts on the reliability of the feed it would allow for more intricate tight spacing work I think.The 331 Pfaff cylinder has this unison type feed and gets a lot more use than the 335 pfaff. I would like to have the advantage of bigger thread and a larger bobbin more. Brian

[RockyAussie]

14 hours ago, dikman said:

So basically you're turning it into a needle-and-inner-foot feed only?

Not sure how I will go yet but the needle foot would come out altogether and the back foot would do the pressing.

[Gregg From Keystone Sewing]

Great video, and great follow up comments, thanks for sharing.  

[Trox]

Hi Uwe. yes I know that manufacturing several with the same precision is a challenging task. All things sell slow in the beginning, before the customers know they exist and that they need it. Remember how many different 441 clones there are and all the other types of machines that are based on the same head. Like sewing automats, bartacker...You name it. And it belongs in every 441 saddlers attachment pack do you ask me. After I installed this guide my favorite setup is the slotted plate and harness presser foot. Sewing  leather with smooth feet and feed dog the needle does most of the feeding anyway, the feed dog is more a problem than help most of the time. You already have a Ebay store and a web site selling part, ask your manufacturar. I think you will get rid of a lot more than 30 pieces, perhaps some of the companies selling these machine want some of them too. If the price is right, that goes for everybody of course.  By the way, the seller of this original Ferdco guide had two guides for sale. The other one had a round needle hole instead of the diamond shaped one that I bought, but they where both original ferdco parts he ensured me. I bought this one because it looked like the original illustration of the part from ferdco.This was some time ago and I would guess the other guide is sold now too. I think there was a description about the diamond shaped needle hole in the patent papers of this part, I cannot remember what it was anymore.  I can understand the idea behind it this shape , but I do not think it will have enought practical avantage for the extra cost to make it like that. Some very nice part you got in that Ebay store, I specially liked that solution of the foot lift allowing a roller guide and the flat 441 Adler style needle plate. Looking very good those flat bed attachment too. Keep up that nice job! Tor