Saddle Lac Sadness

[YinTx]

JLS,

Since I don't have a reference point, could be on way too heavy.  Could be the can, too, on account of I don't have a reference point.  Or perhaps a bit of both.  I don't think I'll drop any $$ on another can to find out, since so many have indicated it is not the product for this job.  

Just tried the Clear Lac for the first time, not shiny at all.  Just soaked right into the leather.  Has me a bit worried about it's ability to resist, or my application technique.  It also completely wiped off the acrylic paint, and pulled out the Fiebeng's Pro oil dye, resulting in a lighter color.  Perhaps a gentle soft brush instead to apply it next time will help.  All a learning experience for me.

Should I be using 2 coats of Clear Lac, or is one enough before antiquing?

YinTx

[NVLeatherWorx]

35 minutes ago, YinTx said:

JLS,

Since I don't have a reference point, could be on way too heavy.  Could be the can, too, on account of I don't have a reference point.  Or perhaps a bit of both.  I don't think I'll drop any $$ on another can to find out, since so many have indicated it is not the product for this job.  

Just tried the Clear Lac for the first time, not shiny at all.  Just soaked right into the leather.  Has me a bit worried about it's ability to resist, or my application technique.  It also completely wiped off the acrylic paint, and pulled out the Fiebeng's Pro oil dye, resulting in a lighter color.  Perhaps a gentle soft brush instead to apply it next time will help.  All a learning experience for me.

Should I be using 2 coats of Clear Lac, or is one enough before antiquing?

YinTx

Acrylic paints automatically resist against Antique and should always be applied over the base color if you are using dye as a base so as to NOT allow it to be pulled off with the application of anything else.  You only resist those areas that do not have any acrylic coloring over them but if they are dyed color you need to apply a resist.  I never apply Clear Lac with a sheep's wool or other method unless it is being used as the overall finish; always apply to areas of resist with an artists brush.  You can apply two coats if you desire but do not apply heavily.  Clear Lac is supposed to soak into the leather, that is how it resists.

If you really want to learn how to use all of these things in proper fashion you need to get your hands on any of Al Stohlman's books about coloring leather.  They go into great detail on how to blend, resist, block, etc. and are more valuable than any other books on the market, especially from today's less experienced information providers.

[YinTx]

NVLeatherWorx,

Again, thanks for sharing all that detail. I have several of Stohlman's books, but was unaware he had on on coloring leather.  I'll see if I can find it.

By artist's brush, do you mean like a paint brush, or an airbrush?

YinTx

[NVLeatherWorx]

21 hours ago, YinTx said:

NVLeatherWorx,

Again, thanks for sharing all that detail. I have several of Stohlman's books, but was unaware he had on on coloring leather.  I'll see if I can find it.

By artist's brush, do you mean like a paint brush, or an airbrush?

YinTx

Get yourself a collection of paint brushes with varied sizes and make sure that they are nylon as it is easier to clean off when you are finished with the lacquer.

[YinTx]

Got the  book,  got the paint brushes, and did some work with only Clear-Lac.  Worked almost too good- couldn't keep the antique down in the stamping from coming out when I lightly wiped the piece down after antique!  So I supposed you could call that success.  Now to try Clear-Lac on parts of un-dyed leather, then antiquing the whole piece for that "two tone" look!  anyhow, here are some images of the results, much improved, thank you everyone for alleviating my frustrations!

For anyone reading this trying to figure out why they can't get antiquing to work how you think it should, here is the process I've landed on, tried and true by so many others in the past as mentioned:  

DOPCAC:  Dye (Fiebeng's Pro Oil), Oil (Neatsfoot), Paint (decorative - Angelus Acrylic paint), Clear-Lac, Antique (Fiebeng's Antique paste, Angelus Acrylic), Clear-Lac.  

(Tan-kote does not work well on top of clear lac:  peels off later and looks horrible. Don't ask...)

I've also successfully used Aussie after the Neatsfoot oil (or paint, if you are using it), without issue.

Using resolene or bag kote or Tan kote or Eco-flo super sheen, or Angelus Acrylic finish, etc all met with less than stellar results.  Do-able, but not great.

This item used Angelus dye, Clear-lac with Angelus Black Acrylic antique, Clear lac top coat.  

 

 

I also have a small pistol case I am working on that was done with Fiebing's dye, and Fiebing's Sheridan brown Antique that worked out really well. 

YinTx

First wipe down, no top coat yet.

 

[YinTx]

So I've been using Clear Lac with some success as a resist, thanks to everyone's input.  Many many thanks.

 Now my issue is the topcoat.  Tan-kote does not work, despite all the instructions from so many sources saying to apply Tan-Kote over Fiebing's Paste Antique. (Alden's School of Leather Trades, Bruce Cheaney, Jim Linnell, The Leather Crafter's Bible, Al Stohlman's "Coloring Leather," the list goes on and on).  I find it just flakes off after it dries and looks terrible.  This happened to the large basketweave stamped project above.  

So I tried to use the Clear Lac as a top coat (also suggested in the book "Coloring Leather").  No flaking, and it seals just fine, but it pulls up the antique and makes a streaky mess.  This is a photo of a binder cover my little one is trying to make, and I've ruined it by applying the Clear Lac top coat.  Now I've started Sheridan carving, I'm going to need a good way to do this without streaking, peeling, flaking, cracking, etc.  Perhaps it is my method of application?  Suggestions?

 

 

YinTx

[terrymac]

When you wipe off the excess antique paste, be sure to get all you can.  I have found the only way to do this is using shearing or wool pads. Tandy sells a synthetic wool that works quite well. If you get all you can off, there is nothing left for the Clearlac to pick up.  I have been using Clear lack (Neatlac) as the final sealer for over fifty years and have never had your problems. An excellent video on the process is put out by Keith Valley on YouTube. He also uses Tankote, but not as the final finish. Tankote will take some of the paste off,  and I personally do not use it unless I need to lighten splotchy places on the leather.

Hope this helps

Terry

[YinTx]

Terry,

I did just wipe with a paper towel after applying the antique.  However, when I wiped the first time, it all came off, so I had to re apply and be careful about not pulling it out of the lettering and borders.  Second piece, I let it set for a while and dry before wiping, hoping more of it would stay down.  That helped with the contrast, but not with the streaking.  I have seen the Keith Valley video last year sometime I think, so thanks for the reminder.  After watching again, it looks like he really works the antique into the leather, not just wiping it on like so many others show.  Perhaps that is my issue, so I'll try again. 

He also uses Tan Kote.  Oddly enough as you mention, it looks like he puts another coat of Neat Lac on TOP of the Tan Kote.  

He also mentions a book, "Sheridan Style Carving" by Bob Likewise, so I'll see if it has any good info in it to help me out.

YinTx

[NVLeatherWorx]

17 hours ago, terrymac said:

When you wipe off the excess antique paste, be sure to get all you can.  I have found the only way to do this is using shearing or wool pads. Tandy sells a synthetic wool that works quite well. If you get all you can off, there is nothing left for the Clearlac to pick up.  I have been using Clear lack (Neatlac) as the final sealer for over fifty years and have never had your problems. An excellent video on the process is put out by Keith Valley on YouTube. He also uses Tankote, but not as the final finish. Tankote will take some of the paste off,  and I personally do not use it unless I need to lighten splotchy places on the leather.

Hope this helps

Terry

And to further support this suggestion that you have provided, I will use old denim rags to do my final buffing so as to ensure that I get all of it off that I can and it also creates a little bit of heat that kind of gives a burnished effect to the sheen.  Also, don't forget to make sure that you wipe the excess off IMMEDIATELY after applying; don't let it set overnight or cure, it must be wiped off immediately and then you let the antique cure.  In all of my years working with antique paste (and I use it religiously) and the Clear-Lac (formerly Neat-Lac) I have never had residual pull-up from it, not even on dyed projects.

[terrymac]

6 hours ago, YinTx said:

Terry,

I did just wipe with a paper towel after applying the antique.  However, when I wiped the first time, it all came off, so I had to re apply and be careful about not pulling it out of the lettering and borders.  Second piece, I let it set for a while and dry before wiping, hoping more of it would stay down.  That helped with the contrast, but not with the streaking.  I have seen the Keith Valley video last year sometime I think, so thanks for the reminder.  After watching again, it looks like he really works the antique into the leather, not just wiping it on like so many others show.  Perhaps that is my issue, so I'll try again. 

He also uses Tan Kote.  Oddly enough as you mention, it looks like he puts another coat of Neat Lac on TOP of the Tan Kote.  

He also mentions a book, "Sheridan Style Carving" by Bob Likewise, so I'll see if it has any good info in it to help me out.

YinTx

You do not want to leave it in the lettering and the borders. Excess paste is not what gets your highlights.  When you apply the paste you get all of the coloring you are going to get. One of the reasons checked bevelers and lined thumbprint are so popular is the checking and lines grab small amounts of the paste and you cannot get it out.  Your paper towels will never work except to remove the bulk of the paste. They will never pull the excess of of the tooling and swivel cuts as will the wool pads. Don't leave any excess anywhere. If you do, it will look like a mud pie.  If you noticed in the Keith Valley video, he works hard at getting it out. I agree with Nevada that you don't ever want to let the paste dry.  It is hard enough to get when it is wet. I can only imagine the nightmare you will have with dried paste and the resulting mess.

Keep working at it

Terry

 

 

Edited August 3, 2017 by terrymac