Oil, water, or diamond stones for starting out?

[YinTx]

You don't have to pay big bucks for a really nice set up.  I am really happy with my Cerax combo stone and Atoma diamond plate.  See this post, and my comments on research and pricing:

The Cerax stones only soak for 30 mins, you are not supposed to leave them wet.  The diamond plate is splash and go.  The fine grit as I have learned is necessary to get a clean edge that really helps your leather knives do what they should be doing:  cut clean and easily.  

Woodyworkshop:  I really like your method of creating a flat strop:  I hadn't put a lot of thought into it, and just assumed that my board was flat:  likely not.  Time for a new one!

YinTx

[billybopp]

Just my opinion, but I'd go a little cheaper on a coarse stones- You only use them occasionally to establish the initial edge, or to clean up dings from dropped/damaged edges.  Something that you don't need to do often.  Finer stones should be better quality - you'll use them for edge maintenance far more frequently.  Stones all should be flat for a real precision edge.  By the time you get to the strop, you're only removing a tiny amount of metal to produce a finely polished edge, so I wouldn't get overly concerned about flatness.  The leather will have a little give anyway, and again, you're removing very little metal there - just enough to polish and knock off the burr from stones.

The experts may have a different take on things, but that's how I see it!

 Bill

[WoodysWorkshop]

1 hour ago, YinTx said:

You don't have to pay big bucks for a really nice set up.  I am really happy with my Cerax combo stone and Atoma diamond plate.  See this post, and my comments on research and pricing:

The Cerax stones only soak for 30 mins, you are not supposed to leave them wet.  The diamond plate is splash and go.  The fine grit as I have learned is necessary to get a clean edge that really helps your leather knives do what they should be doing:  cut clean and easily.  

Woodyworkshop:  I really like your method of creating a flat strop:  I hadn't put a lot of thought into it, and just assumed that my board was flat:  likely not.  Time for a new one!

YinTx

I have a bunch of adhesive backed 3M gold colored products in a wide range of grits left over from my Auto Body Tech days. I also have some pieces of melamine coated particle board, which are about as flat as you can get.

The 2 work really good together. I use them when finishing out fins for my model rockets and lately they have been handy to clean up wood for my leather molds.

I have rolls of 2-3/4" wide and 6" diameter, ranging from 80 to 400 grits. I also have quite a hoard of w/d 3M sanding paper from 240 to 2000 grits.

People call me a pack rat, so be it. But even back in the day that stuff was expensive. No way was I going to part with it!

[Ranelpia]

On 01/09/2017 at 10:04 AM, YinTx said:

You don't have to pay big bucks for a really nice set up.  I am really happy with my Cerax combo stone and Atoma diamond plate.  See this post, and my comments on research and pricing:

The Cerax stones only soak for 30 mins, you are not supposed to leave them wet.  The diamond plate is splash and go.  The fine grit as I have learned is necessary to get a clean edge that really helps your leather knives do what they should be doing:  cut clean and easily.  

Woodyworkshop:  I really like your method of creating a flat strop:  I hadn't put a lot of thought into it, and just assumed that my board was flat:  likely not.  Time for a new one!

YinTx

In regards to your 1200 Atoms, wouldn't 15 microns be close to 700-750 grit? What do you do for coarser grits? Lee Valley sells the 1200 and 400 for $136, and the 140 for $146. The 140 would be closer to a 320 grit, or coarse India, and I'd think better suited for roughing out an edge before going at it with the 1000 cerax.

[YinTx]

15 minutes ago, Ranelpia said:

In regards to your 1200 Atoms, wouldn't 15 microns be close to 700-750 grit? What do you do for coarser grits? Lee Valley sells the 1200 and 400 for $136, and the 140 for $146. The 140 would be closer to a 320 grit, or coarse India, and I'd think better suited for roughing out an edge before going at it with the 1000 cerax.

Not sure what the grit equivalent is, I'd have to look it up.  What I do know is that I had a cleaver that was major banged up with dings you could see, and a round edge.  I was able to remove the dings and re-profile the edge on it with the Atoma 1200 plate.  I suspect the 400 would have made things move along faster, I think the 140 would just be way to rough for  it or any leather working tools.  None of my tools, even the old ones, would warrant the gouging that would impart to them.  I agree, the 1000 Cerax is a fairly smooth stone that would get damaged by a bad edge, which is why I profiled on the Atoma first.  If you have an edge that bad, absolutely get a coarser stone before honing on the finer stones.

The prices you list for the Atoma plates seem a bit high to me, I'd shop around.

YinTx

[Ranelpia]

Keep in mind that the prices are in Canadian dollars; of course, Lee Valley tends to be a little on the expensive side. Here's a comparison chart I found for comparing micron size, ANSI/CAMI (sandpaper), JIS (Waterstones), and comparable stones like Arkansas.

http://www.hocktools.com/temp/15hgritchart.pdf

I did make a mistake, however. It would have been the 400 which would be closer to a 320 grit, not the 140. I've also found a medium and a coarse for under $100 each, but I'm not sure if they're rip-offs. The seller is named 'generic', which fills me with dread.

Edited September 2, 2017 by Ranelpia

[jdwhitak]

Ranelpia,

I was in a similar situation to you not long ago. Deciding what sharpening system to go with is a personal choice. Everyone has their favorites. I decided to try each system for myself before buying a full setup. Here is what I found:

Sandpaper/Honing Film on Plate Glass, Marble, etc. 

This is frequently called the Scary Sharp method. It has lowest entry cost, but the highest cost in the long run. You have to constantly replace the sharpening media. I bought a piece of plate glass from Lee Valley that is sold for this purpose. It is a good size and you can have an entire grit progression on one plate. I bought 3M micro honing films (12 micron to .3 micron) for my experimenting at my local Woodcraft. I got good results, but it is the most expensive method in the long run. I wanted a more cost effective solution.

Water Stones

The grit in most man-made water stones is aluminum oxide set in some kind of binder. So, I wouldn't get hung up on any particular brand. In addition to leather working and now woodworking, I'm a serious some chef. A handful of years ago I purchased a set of Shapton Glass stones. They worked good. Water stones do make a serious mess in my opinion, which is contrary to most people's opinion on the matter. Water stones will sharpen more quickly because the binder easily breaks down and releases fresh grit. However, because of that water stones wear more quickly and require frequent lapping (flattening) of the surface. You will  have to buy a lapping plate just for that purpose. I was lapping every sharpening session. Some times I had to stop mid sharpening to lap the stone. I found this very inconvenient. If you want to go the water stone route I would suggest Norton. You can get two combination stones that cover 1K to 8K plus a lapping plate for around $150. Buy the way, I sold my Shapton Glass stones and bough oil stones.

Oil Stones

This is the system that I ended up going with. If you want to go the oil stone route then I highly suggest Dan's Whetstone Co. There are companies selling "Arkansas" stones very cheaply out there. However, they are not real Arkansas stones. Real Arkansas stones are made from naturally occurring novaculite, which is a microcrystalline quartz. 

I bought a pocket-sized Soft Arkansas and a Hard Black Arkansas from Dan's to try for about $60. They worked great. A couple of things to keep in mind about Arkansas stones is that they do cut more slowly. For me this is a benefit as I tend to overdo things. I think the slowness of the stone will actually save me from ruining knives. Second, Arkansas stones may not work great on some of the super hard steels knife makers are starting to use. I can attest though that Arkansas stones work just fine on O1, A2 and D2 tool steel. 

As far as man-made stones go, again go with Norton. Their India stone is made from aluminum oxide and their Crystolon stone is made from silicon carbide. Norton oil stones are very cheap and they even come with a plastic case. I paid $20 for a medium India at sharpeningsupplies.com. You can do a three-stone progression from coarse to fine for about $60. 

The really good thing about Arkansas stones and even the man-made Norton stones is how slowly they wear. In your lifetime you may never have to lap them. In fact these can become a family heirlooms passed down to your kids and even grandkids. 

Diamond

These seem to be all the rage these days. I have a X-Coarse DMT plate that I bought to solely use as a lapping plate. I would NOT use a diamond plate to sharpen any kind of knife. Diamond stones are extremely aggressive and leave deep scratches. They'll chew up your nice knives in a New York minute!

The benefits of diamond plates is that you will never have to lap them and the abrasive lasts a very long time. Depending on how much you sharpen you may not have to replace them in your lifetime. If you want to use diamonds for sharpening, which I would not recommend, I would go with DMT. They are actually reasonably priced for what you are getting; a nice heavy plate and a continuous mono crystalline diamond surface.

My Setup

1 x Norton India, medium - used as a coarse stone for re-profiling for fixing a more serious problem quickly.

1 x Dan's Whetstone Soft Arkansas - used as a medium stone. Edges off just this stone can be pretty good.

1 X Dan's Whetstone Hard Black - used as a fine stone. Edges off this stone can be crazy sharp. Does not provide a mirror shine though, more of a matte shine.

1 X Leather strop w/ chromium oxide (green) paste. This is my go to for maintaining my knives. I strop before cutting and during cutting.