When was my Adler 67 made?

[chase97]

First post here so I'll introduce myself briefly.  I am a Prosthetist/Orthotist by profession, which is a fancy way of saying I design, fabricate, and fit prosthetic limbs and (mostly) custom leg braces.  

50 years ago my profession was done by real craftsman who worked with wood, metal, and leather!  Because of that, we still use a lot of leather tools (as well as cobbler specific tools).   I forgot to mention that shoe work falls into our scope of practice, ie lifts, extra straps, shoe modifications, etc.    So just about every shop I've been in always has a commercial machine and usually a patcher as well.   My wife and I took the leap about 1 1/2 yrs ago and opened our own business.  I've been getting by with a small older home sewing machine but finally obtained an Adler 67-GK373 with a new servo motor.   And I love it!   

So this leads us to my question for you guys.   Where can I find when my machine was made?  The internet is a vast and informative place but for the life of me, I can not find any info on the dates of manufacture of the Adler 67's, 167's, etc.  

I appreciate any help.   And thanks!  

Chase 

PS I also just bought an old Singer 29K60 (built in 1910!) that I'll pick up next weekend.  Looking forward to cleaning it up and getting it running well.  

[shoepatcher]

Chase,

Just a note.  The Singer 29K 60 was not made until the late 1930's.  The series 29K 58, 60, & 62 patchers replaced the 29K51-56 series which came out in 1923.  Just some info.   Adler may have a list of manufacturing dates.  I personally have never seen one.

glenn

[chase97]

6 hours ago, shoepatcher said:

Chase,

Just a note.  The Singer 29K 60 was not made until the late 1930's.  The series 29K 58, 60, & 62 patchers replaced the 29K51-56 series which came out in 1923.  Just some info.   Adler may have a list of manufacturing dates.  I personally have never seen one.

glenn

Hmmm...   The info I checked with the model and serial number said 1910 in Scotland.   I'll double check that.    

[chase97]

Well I checked it again and two different sources said...    1919 !   

It is definitely a 29K60 and the serial number is F8901955

[Uwe]

Folks, please include links to sources you use whenever possible.  I know it's work and not everybody is up for it, but fact checked and/or referenced info is so much more valuable.

According to the ISMACS serial number reference the F-8901955 machine was indeed produced in 1919.

The ISMACS model reference list does not provide a production date range for the Singer 29K60.

So either it's the a Singer 29K60 with the very rare time travel option, or they started making that particular model earlier than stated above (or the type plaque got swapped or misread.) Photos are super helpful.

 

As for your Adler 67GK373, I'm not aware of any resource for dating Adler machines by serial number.  You can narrow it down to within a decade or two by looking at dated documentation like parts lists etc. I'd place an Adler 67GK373 in the mid 70's to late 80's. The earliest mention of the Adler 67-GK373 I know of is January 1976 in a German language service manual (Adler-67-GK373-Justieranleitung.pdf  - I don't have an English version and I don't do translations, sorry!)  The parts list I have for the Adler 67-GK373 is dated 1982 (Adler 67-GK373 Parts List.pdf) .

A photo of the machine and type plate may provide clues to narrow down the date range. It's nice to know when a machine was built, but not the end of the world if you don't.

[chase97]

Thanks Uwe!  The info you provided for the Adler is super helpful.  I'll post some pics later.  

[shoepatcher]

I know for a fact the 29K60 did not get made before the late 1930's.  That series replaced the 29k51-56 series.  Something is not right with the serial number.

glenn

[chase97]

On 11/25/2017 at 8:45 AM, shoepatcher said:

I know for a fact the 29K60 did not get made before the late 1930's.  That series replaced the 29k51-56 series.  Something is not right with the serial number.

glenn

What info are you basing this on?   (Not picking a fight - just genuinely curious ) 

[Wizcrafts]

3 hours ago, chase97 said:

What info are you basing this on?   (Not picking a fight - just genuinely curious ) 

If you notice the member's user name is Shoepatcher and find it curious, it is because his entire business is about rebuilding/restoring machines that are used to sew shoe uppers. These are all patcher machines of many makes and models. I promise you that Glenn knows his stuff.

[Uwe]

Part of the learning process is resolving apparently contradictory information. No doubt @shoepatcher knows his stuff, but I for one am always looking for verifiable facts that support a statement, especially if it contradicts other information. In the grand scheme of things dating a sewing machine is not a super important issue, but since we already started down that rabbit hole, we may as well figure out where it leads. 

I think we need exhibit A:  the close-up photo of the actual serial number and type plate on @chase97's Singer 29K

 

Edited November 28, 2017 by Uwe

[chase97]

Here's the pic 

[Constabulary]

To me the 29K60 plate does not really look like an original  Singer plate. Would you please post pictures of the whole machine - especially the head from front and back and the hook with open needle plate and hook insert. I`m not sure it maybe the machine has a wrong tag and it is not a 29K60 - maybe it´s a 29K31

Edited November 29, 2017 by Constabulary

[Gregg From Keystone Sewing]

On 11/13/2017 at 7:09 PM, Uwe said:

As for your Adler 67GK373, I'm not aware of any resource for dating Adler machines by serial number.  You can narrow it down to within a decade or two by looking at dated documentation like parts lists etc. I'd place an Adler 67GK373 in the mid 70's to late 80's. The earliest mention of the Adler 67-GK373 I know of is January 1976 in a German language service manual (Adler-67-GK373-Justieranleitung.pdf  - I don't have an English version and I don't do translations, sorry!)  The parts list I have for the Adler 67-GK373 is dated 1982 (Adler 67-GK373 Parts List.pdf) .

A photo of the machine and type plate may provide clues to narrow down the date range. It's nice to know when a machine was built, but not the end of the world if you don't.

UWE,

I've go one better, see attached, 1973.  Though you may like to see this.

[Gregg From Keystone Sewing]

You can see the two different Eustachian pins, Singer would never send a machine out from the factory like that.

I would bet one US dollar that if we flip that brass plate, that there is a different model number on the other side.  Actually, it's pretty common, and if you remove enough of these tags and have a collection, you would see it for yourself.

 

 

[Uwe]

I'll have to add escutcheon pins to my vocabulary (the eustachian tube connects your middle ear to your throat.)

The type plate and pins do look a little suspect. Here's one reference I found of a Singer 29K60 with a detailed, original looking type plate with decorative pins and a modern, sans serif font used for marking (that machine's serial number points to 1945)

 

Edited November 29, 2017 by Uwe

[Uwe]

21 minutes ago, Gregg From Keystone Sewing said:

I've go one better, see attached, 1973.  Though you may like to see this.

I think the "GK" (Greifer Kupplung, i.e. hook clutch) models were a later addition to the family of Adler 67 machines. 

[chase97]

Oh my...   we've got a full blown conspiracy on our hands !   

I'll get some bigger pics asap.  Can't wait to hear more from you guys!  

One other note, I did discover that the head and the base were not made for each other.  You'll see why when I upload pics.  

[chase97]

I'll get a good pic of the hook and base later.  

[chase97]

6 hours ago, Gregg From Keystone Sewing said:

You can see the two different Eustachian pins, Singer would never send a machine out from the factory like that.

I would bet one US dollar that if we flip that brass plate, that there is a different model number on the other side.  Actually, it's pretty common, and if you remove enough of these tags and have a collection, you would see it for yourself.

 

 

if we flip that brass plate, that there is a different model number on the other side.

Why would one flip the model plate?   and change the model # ?  

Actually, it's pretty common, and if you remove enough of these tags and have a collection, you would see it for yourself.

And why is this common ?  

[Constabulary]

I already can tell from the pictures that this is NOT a 29K60 - it spears to be a large look machine (like the 29K60) but this definitive is an earlier model. I still bet its a 29K31.

The original 29K60 is a large hook machine with removable gear box / horn, it has a helical presser foot spring and NOT the blade spring on the backside of the machine. It pretty much looks like the later 29K72 but with minor differences (thread regulator f.i.)

3 hours ago, chase97 said:

Why would one flip the model plate?   and change the model # ?  

because of cheating customers - probably for "claiming" that this is a more modern model. I don´t say that the last owner did this but seems some one did it. But his plate does not look like a Singer plate at all - it spears to be too high and as mentioned the But you never know...

This is how the 29K60 should look like (treadle base is from  short arm patcher)

http://horsenharness.com/SINGERMACHINEFORSALE.html

[Gregg From Keystone Sewing]

6 hours ago, Constabulary said:

...Why would one flip the model plate?   and change the model # ?  Cheating customers - probably for "claiming" that this is a more modern model.

OK, sure, maybe that is the case, cheating a customer could be the point.

Or, it could be something else that is VERY legitimate, something simply as recycling a model tag.

As seen here, a 114 subclass was changed, maybe correctly to reflect a change in subclass and parts?  Not sure.  

68 and 69 class machines have literally dozens of sub classes, and would be common to change the model tag to reflect this.

So when you seen tags switched or changed, it's not always to dupe or flat out lie to a customer, there may have been many various legitimate reasons to replace the tag.

 

Edited November 30, 2017 by Gregg From Keystone Sewing

[Gregg From Keystone Sewing]

17 hours ago, Uwe said:

I'll have to add escutcheon pins to my vocabulary (the eustachian tube connects your middle ear to your throat.)

Uwe,

Please feel free to add escutcheon pins to your vocab, see below, we use this to denote a type of decorate pin.

I learned somthing new, too; the eustachian tube connects the middle ear to your throat.  I never new that at all.

Glad to share and learn, that's why I'm here.  All the best, and I very much appreciate you Uwe and all the work you do here and on YouTube.

 

  All the best.

 

 

Edited November 30, 2017 by Gregg From Keystone Sewing

[Gregg From Keystone Sewing]

16 hours ago, Uwe said:

I think the "GK" (Greifer Kupplung, i.e. hook clutch) models were a later addition to the family of Adler 67 machines. 

News to me, I would have never known that, many machines have GK in their model number.  

Edited November 30, 2017 by Gregg From Keystone Sewing

[brmax]

Possibly the GK refference is a sign!

Gregg  Keystone

 

Floyd